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April 14th, 2016, 07:55 PM #1
Windows 10 frustrations/ new build in plan
Hey everyone, I am about ready to do a new build from the 1st I7 gen puter that is near 6 years old now. I did the free upgrade to 10 home on it about 6 months ago. And it seemed kool but , it locked up , desktop and I couldnt get the icons back till I did an refresh of it off a dvd. Really putting it I hate the dam thing but I suppose my beloved 7 ultimate is not much good for new systems . I see if you use the new m2 ssd win 7 won't see the drive with out a lot of hassle . Is there anyway to stay with win 7 or do I just need to go with 10 an bite my lip. looking at maybe the new 1151 type MB an CPU. wish they would have made an option to completely act like win 7 in 10 for us old farts. Just need thoughts and advise please.Powered by area 51 Alien technology
April 14th, 2016, 08:38 PM #2
Would window 7 detect this board and a m2 ssd? With out any problems and perform well ? Heck I may just need to bring this up in general, its a little of all, so pardon me if it is
ASRock ASRock Fatal1ty Gaming E3V5 Performance Gaming/OC LGA 1151 Intel C232 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com
Last edited by lone1dog; April 14th, 2016 at 08:59 PM.Powered by area 51 Alien technology
April 14th, 2016, 09:32 PM #3
Perhaps my real question here is if I want to go with this new drive what am I looking for to load win 7 ? And will win 7 even work for these things?
SAMSUNG 950 PRO M.2 512GB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-V5P512BW - Newegg.comPowered by area 51 Alien technology
April 15th, 2016, 02:47 AM #4
Question is why do you need that speed, or more accurately do you really need that speed?
If this is just a regular standard build, and you're not really doing anything that absolutely requires that speed, then its a waste of money, M.2 is still fairly new, and pricey, just go with a good standard SATA III SSD, Samsung 850 Pro.
SAMSUNG 850 PRO 2.5" 512GB SATA III 3-D Vertical Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-7KE512BW - Newegg.com
April 15th, 2016, 10:48 AM #5
I really dont know what I am talking about with them, so I would see your point is a pair of sata3 ssd in raid would be as fast as I would possible need. But is it just me or is windows 10 nothing but a glorified windows 8. I have hated this thing. If I just get the M2 drives off my brain and act rational (LOL) I should have no problems with my beloved windows 7. I wish they had made 10 more 7 like.Powered by area 51 Alien technology
April 15th, 2016, 11:04 PM #6
I've been using 8.1 for 6 months now, and I do like it, the whole metro tile thing and listing is a joke, and annoying to use, but I always use the traditional desktop mode, the start button is dumb, wish it had kept the old Windows 7 start menu, frustrating trying to send a program shortcut to desktop from the tile interface and such.
But have managed to just deal with it.
It is faster loading up from a boot up or restart than 7, but that has a lot to do with how 8 loads background tasks and necessary OS boot up files and such over 7.
If my Win7 system wasn't set up a tad different over my 8.1 system, and neither had Password login options set up.
The 8.1 system would only boot from a cold start in maybe 10-15 seconds less time than windows 7, which isn't much to worry about. 7 might be loading a few extra background tasks than 8 is, with stuff I have installed on it.
But a 74GB Western Digital Velociraptor drive vs a Crucial MX200 series 250GB SSD, as fast as the SSD is, over all boot up of the OS isn't THAT much faster.
Certain apps and programs, transferring files back and forth between drives, you do see a difference, but for most simple tasks and even loading the OS, its not night and day performance, despite what a lot of morons out there claim.
Going from say a Western Digital Blue series, or even the Green Series, of a Laptop running a 5400RPM drive, then yeah, sure, its much much faster.
But if your running a 7200RPM drive with 32, 64 or even 128MB Cache memory, its not going to be a huge noticeable difference in boot ups.
Factor in the read/writes that are limited on an SSD more so than on a Spindle Drive.
OS is great, but with Windows 7, you need to set up some stuff manually not to have the SSD defragged, as well as offload the paging files from the SSD to regular drive, so as to keep wear and tear down on SSD. Etc.
But with Windows 10, I'd look at some of Stardock's software for it to get users a more Windows 7 and earlier like environment.
Software: Windows Customization Apps from Stardock Corporation
I might look into that in a couple months when I upgrade my 8.1 to 10 before the deadline, might even do that next month.
But I'll give 10 a good couple months of use as it is, to get used to it maybe, before changing everything up.
with your system, the new one your looking at building, what are you going to be using it for?
As to 10, I've only used it to limited extent on my moms Microsoft Surface 3 tablet and my brothers PC I built (originally had 8.1 on it, but not even 2 weeks after he got it, he just upgraded it to 10), so far he hasn't had many complaints, but he's not that tech savvy, and I suspect a LOT of 10 users are like him, they won't know the differences between 7, 8 or 10, and really don't care as long as it works.
For me, 10 is a hair faster than 8.1 but not enough to warrant an upgrade. Same with basic features, but the problems for us gamers is DirectX 12 support will be non existent on 7 and 8, so in order to use it, we NEED to upgrade to 10. I doubt DX12 is non functional in 7 or 8, despite what MS claims, that its more or less locked out of those OS's and only available on 10, like the BS they pulled with DX10 with Vista, claiming it would not work on XP.
Of course, DX11 comes out, works on 8.1, 8.0, 7, and Vista... Then 12, and suddenly it doesn't?
I'm not fond of updating to 10, too many personal use customization and control of MY copy of my OS being given up, and allowing MS to control, manipulate and so on, especially when Updates are applied.
I have Windows 8.1 Pro, so I'll have a little more control over updates than normal non Pro customers will, but still subject to forced installation and restart/reboots of what MS Deems is appropriate.
But as to drives and speeds, M.2 Isn't bad, but with most boards currently, when using M.2 sockets, they tie into the PCIe bus and some of the SATA Ports are disabled since they share bandwidth, usually one of the SATA Express ports if the board has one, and another SATA port, or those with out, there's usually at least 2 SATA III ports that are disabled when using M.2.
M.2 is nice if you are looking at max speeds, or needing to save space, or your case is just out of drive bays.
Thing is, for the price of some M.2 drives, you'd be better off going with a PCIe slot based SSD, the down side with some of those is on some systems, since the PCIe bus isn't a priority on boot up searching for drives, sometimes its not possible to have the OS installed on one to boot from.
So there's cons to the PCIe SSD drives as well.
With out wasting tons of money, I'd rather look at a single 500GB SSD, or even a pair of 240-256GB SSD in Raid 0, or a trio in Raid 5 for some level of redundancy.
M.2 is getting popular in the Enthusiast markets and some of the high end gamers systems, and even those with big pockets, putting together their first high end gaming systems, wasting money where they shouldn't be and cutting themselves short.
Have already seen a couple gamers builds where they tossed in a $500+ range Graphics card, an Intel i3 Dual core, or AMD Quad core, and then loaded up on really high speed memory and hard drive...
GPU is choked by the CPU, with an over priced $300 range motherboard, and RAM that is rated for insanely high DDR3 speeds, yet, the CPU isn't overclocked, with $100-200 of cooling on it. And $500 or more of high speed storage...
I've wanted to reach into the screen and strangle those kids...
$150 is enough on the Motherboard, at least put in an Intel i5 Quad core, or AMD FX 8 core... drop the SSD storage to standard SSD's... Drop the RAM to more mid range DDR3 speeds (1866-2400 is more than enough), $100 max for CPU cooling, for a good 240mm liquid cooling kit, $75 range for a 120mm kit, $30-40 for a standard Air cooler, at most.
Forget the $200 case, $50-100 is enough.
And as for a 1500W PSU, LOL, I have seen people put the money down on one of those, when over all, as is, they're system is barely pulling 300-350W from the wall.
I can't help but shake my head when I see that. BALANCE, need to build a system with BALANCE while also planning ahead a couple/few years down the road for possible upgrade routes, and keep with in your budget.
Its not THAT hard, but a person needs to do a little research and reading before jumping head on with those kinds of builds.
I know we all started at the bottom at some point, but even with that said 10, 15, 20 years ago, there was less info out there on the web to look up and read about than there is now. Things should be easier now days than back then, but the kids these days, are too used to stuff just being there for them, people doing stuff for them, etc, less self education, and more of ease of use and just over all around "Free".
April 17th, 2016, 01:41 PM #7
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April 17th, 2016, 02:14 PM #8
Main things I don't like with 10 is the limited control on updates, and when you can/want to update as well as needed reboots for updates, which can be a PITA at times if you really don't want to.
The amount of data gathering in background, which isn't a LOT more than 8, but its still more than MS actually needs, which is BS to be honest.
And the fact from a fresh install, loading the OS, most of the security and exposed access settings are enabled by default, opening the OS to sharing, and exposing personal info with ease, versus 8's default settings for most of those set to off or disabled or reduced (10's initial start up and settings configured on my moms Tablet, first time using 10, and was shocked at all the settings enabled by default, had someone like my mom, or other relatives done that, they would of bypassed everything and left as is, leaving the tablet, their identity and other info extremely easy to access, versus installing Windows 8.1 on my brothers Laptop, game PC, and then 8.1 Pro on my own system, and 90% of those same settings, were disabled or turned off by default).
That was enough to allow me to see the route MS was taking with 10, as well as the features for it to search out other Windows PC's on the network, and install or nag to upgrade 10 to those as well, which is something I see as being too sneaky, and trying to spy too much on consumers.
I have a Windows 7 system, I want to KEEP as Windows 7, I don't need 8.1 or 10 seeking out it, and then upgrade it to 10 as well, its an older PC, for compatibility reasons, to keep as 7. I also have XP MCE 2005, not installed currently, but I have that for my old Athlon 64 system/hardware, when I finally get around to restoring an old school monster gamer/OC machine, to run XP on it, and no, I don't want that updated to 10 either, main reason being, is most of the hardware won't be compatible with 10, or will run like crap... 2GB RAM? (sure, it might be ok, but DDR 500MHz, so, dog slow)
Athlon 64, Opteron Dual Core... Geforce 7 era GPU... get the picture.
Otherwise, the security, and loss of most control over updates, are the main issues I have with 10, as well as MS's intention to cram it down our throats.
That aside, 10 is a very nice performing OS, and as said, is really what 8 and 8.1 should have been on release.
10 is to 8 and 8.1 what 7 was to Vista.
At least with 8 and 8.1 they were both infinitely better than Vista.
I see 8 and 8.1 as the Windows 98 and 98SE of the Vista Generation of OS's.
With Windows 95/2000 we had 95, 98, 98SE, and ME, and then XP. Vista was 95, 8 was 98, 8.1 was 98SE, ME we'll just forget about that (or we could just write that off as Windows 8 RT, LOL), and though out of order, XP was more like 7, or vice versa.
7 was one of their best polished OS's and launched OS's ever. XP started off rough, but better than 95, and over time, became a semi reliable, much loved OS.
Vista was a botched job... and despite numerous delays, and rebuilt several times, it was finally here... we kept hearing about "Longhorn" and other code names, till Vista started to finally show its face, or rear its ugly head, however you want to put it.
Then 7 came along, I wasn't initially convinced, but some had said its MUCH MUCH better than Vista, so I gave the Beta a try, and DAAAAAAMMMNNN!!!!
The Public Beta, was rock solid stable as an every day OS, and in a matter of a month, I went from Windows XP MCE 2005 to Windows 7 64-bit Ultimate Beta as my main OS, until spring the next year when the Beta expired and the OS was out for a while, I bought it, and installed and was still on it until last fall.
8.1, tad bit learning curve, still struggle to find some options and settings, but over all isn't bad.
10, same story, not much learning curve from 8 series.
Its a nice stable OS, but there's a few kinks and issues I don't care for, and my main reluctance to jump on the bandwagon.
Though in a month or two, I'll have to make that final choice.
DirectX 12, and some other features I need. I WILL make the jump at some point, but its a matter of, do I do it for free now, or have to shell out $140+ months down the road for a full on copy of 10? Which isn't all that bad, leaves me with 8.1 pro for a separate system, and 10 for this one, along with 7 and XP for other systems.
But do I or don't I feel like dropping more money on an OS, after I just bought a copy last fall, less than a year later?
April 25th, 2016, 01:56 PM #9
I am not knocking win 10 maybe it works well for some but me it just sucks, LOL. I am still on my old machine and am trying to reformat it off and use my win 7 disk to reload ,but I can't get into my asus bios nor will it load from the dvd to reformat. ???Powered by area 51 Alien technology
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