Wanting To Get Into Computer Industry, Looking For Advice

[311Sam]

sorry to ask this here but this is about the most professional web forum i know, i have asked this else where with not much help.

well lets see. i dont know where to start. well i guess i will just start with my life story:

i did very poorly in high school. dont know how i graduated. i think i did so poor because i just wasnt motivated. my grandfather owns an automotive shop. i had always thought i would just grow up to be a mechanic of some sort so i always figured i wouldnt need to know proper math or english, and consequently i did horrible in those classes.


right now i am working as an aircraft mechanic. i payed $20k to go to a tech school for 13 months. i did fine in the tech school with a 3.7 gpa, i only did bad in the academic classes again . it has been 3 years since i have gotten my job and it just pretty much sucks all around. i have looked elsewhere in the industry and i see all the same things that i dont like about my current company. one thing i cant stand is the overtime. we usually work 6 days a week year around, 56 hours a week. usually there isnt even work and we are still there on overtime standing around. management is horrible in pretty much every company i have seen. if management is good then usually you have to worry about layoffs (boeing,lockheed,etc). i am 23. i am getting to the point in my life where i want to get a girlfriend and start a family. right now it would be stupid and selfish to do that working the hours i work and on my small $35k a year salary. i had a crappy childhood growing up and i really dont want to pass that forward to my own kids.

i have been doing alot of thinking and i am ready to do something about all this. in august i registered at my local community college. i got into the network administration program. however since i am working all these hours schooling is kinda hard and i can only take 2 courses a semester. at this rate it would take almost 5 years for a 2 year degree. and then im still not sure if this degree will give me what i want. so after thinking about all this again i have decided it would be best to just quit work and move back into my grandparents house and go to school full time. but then the question arises about what school to enroll into. they live by san antonio texas so i would be limited to a school in that city. right now i am in waco texas.

now i know nobody can choose a school for me or know what i like. i am just hoping to get some info so i will be able to make a good choice in the school i go too. i am even thinking about a 4 year degree. so what do i like? well i am on here so of course i like computers and linux. networking, configuring, tweaking, fixing broken programs, i just cant get enough of it. i bought my first computer when i was 18 and i havent stopped since then. right now i have a small network running in my house. i got a box with smoothwall on it for my firwall/gateway. another box on the orange for a server. got wireless and ethernet for the green. there is just something about networking and hooking up computers that i like. i really like the way a 2 year degree sounds for network administration. i just dont want to get stuck in a dead end job again or in another crappy work place. i mean, so if i build a network for a company what happens once it is finished? do i get fired or stuck sitting at a desk all day bored out of my mind?

this is where i starting thinking about maybe getting a 4 year degree. would that be better? but then i cant really find any kind of 4 year degrees that have anything to do with networking. st. mary's university in san antonio looks to be pretty good but all the courses have to do with programming or engineering. things i have thought about but i am not really sure if i would like to do it. i finally found a university that atleast has a networking track in their computer science degree: http://www.ollusa.edu/ollu2.aspx?pgID=991

so what does everyone think? it seems like the 2 year degrees for networking are all based around getting certs while the 4 year degrees dont seem to have any certs at all?

and going a step farther i started looking in to computer type jobs and seeing what kind of degrees i need.



and another job: http://jobs-rackspace.icims.com/rack...1350&mode=view

where in the world would i ever learn to run all those programs listed? dont seem to have come across any classes for that at any schools.

then this one: http://jobs-rackspace.icims.com/rack...1338&mode=view

they want some linux scripting knowledge in that one, guessing you would get that with a software degree?

[osprey4]

Not trying to avoid your question, but it does not appear to me that you have defined what you want to do at all. The great thing about a liberal arts education is that you would have exposure to a wide variety of disciplines, allowing you to see what sort of careers would be of interest to you. At this point in your life, shooting for a "career in computers" is probably influenced by your recreational enjoyment, rather than by what you would find truly fulfilling.

My advice? Find a local community college, enroll in a general education or undeclared major, and take classes for a couple years to see what you like and what you don't.

Also keep in mind that the things that allow one to be successful in life, discipline, determination and desire, also apply in college. If you cannot achieve in classes, there's little reason to believe you'll achieve in a career.

[Pexster]

Concur with osprey4. Also, no matter what you end up doing, you'll need some basic math skills and you'll need to be able to write well (if you want to be successful, that is). So those things you didn't like in school? You better deal with them.

[GroundZero3]

i just dont want to get stuck in a dead end job again or in another crappy work place. i mean, so if i build a network for a company what happens once it is finished? do i get fired or stuck sitting at a desk all day bored out of my mind?

LOL most of the time you dont really build a whole network from the ground up. Usually its an upgrade of the existing network. There will be a few chances that you will build something from scratch. Either way you will be responsible for tweaking it and fixing any issues that arise.

School will only get you so far. Jobs are looking for people who actually have worked on a network. They want people who just dont know stuff by the books but also what is out in the field. (books cant teach you everything) So School + a real job acutally doing it (or volunteer anything to get your feet into the door) will help you land a job.

Those jobs you listed are for people who have been in the workforce and have experience. Linux scripting can be learned at home on your own time. A company however wants something to back up what you can do. That is where the job comes into play.

And i agree with osprey the ability to communicate espically when it comes to the IT field is very important.

[311Sam]

thanks for the help everyone

Concur with osprey4. Also, no matter what you end up doing, you'll need some basic math skills and you'll need to be able to write well (if you want to be successful, that is). So those things you didn't like in school? You better deal with them.

yea i have already dealt with it. in my community college i am taking a cisco course and engligh1. i am doing fine in both of them. in high school i just didnt have any motivation, but my future is now my motivation.

[GroundZero3]

What are you doing to get your foot into the door tho? Taking a cisco class isnt gonna get you very far.

[311Sam]

What are you doing to get your foot into the door tho? Taking a cisco class isnt gonna get you very far.

if you are talking about getting my foot in the door of the university then i am not sure. the cisco and english class i am taking are for the network administration class that i enrolled in at my community college. sorry if there is a misunderstanding, but like i said in my first post, i am currenly taking this network class but have had a change of plans and i am thinking about going to a 4 year school.

as far as getting into a university, do they do any kind of pre-enrollment testing? i know it cant be as easy to get into as community college. i hope they dont care about my high school transcript and only look at my tech school and community college ones....

[GroundZero3]

Im taking about getting your foot into the computer field. You can not just get a job simply with school anymore. Maybe before the big IT bubble was happening but not anymore.

[osprey4]

in my community college i am taking...engligh1.

Keep studying.

Seriously, there are basic skills that are needed regardless of career. Writing, math and--not surprisingly--computer skills.

We're with you, Sam. Keep working hard.

[311Sam]

Im taking about getting your foot into the computer field. You can not just get a job simply with school anymore. Maybe before the big IT bubble was happening but not anymore.

really? that is very interesting. for starters there is a linux users group i am going to join down in san antonio. i was also thinking about finding a church that might need help maintaining their computer network. thats my only plans as of now. i have 4 cousins that all graduated from a 4 year computer science degree from baylor, none of them seemed to have trouble getting a job. hope i can have the luck they did.

what do you recommend as far as getting my foot in the door?

Keep studying.

Seriously, there are basic skills that are needed regardless of career. Writing, math and--not surprisingly--computer skills.

We're with you, Sam. Keep working hard.

thanks

[cadetstimp]

It might be better to work it from the other direction.

Figure out where you want to live... find the biggest/best company near that location and then spend time figuring out how to get your foot in the door.

It's funny ... I was in the IT industry 11 years and ended up going into aviation because I got tired of corporate waste and policy. The computer industry will definitely pay better in the long run... if you start in the right company.

One thing I learned... if your resourceful and have the ability to figure out how to figure things out... it's better to focus on the right company first, get in the door and then perform to the position you want. Once your in, being the go to guy willing to do work and find solutions no one else wants to do will get you where your going.

Some hints on finding the right company:

At least 1000 employees
Medical or Pharmaceutical is ideal (medical recordkeeping and bio research will always have high computer need without the risk of a tech company. Also, because of the value they hold on their data.. they long term invest in their IT dept. Plus they always have plenty of $$$$)

A tech based company is OK as long as it has been in business and growing for a good period of time (think big names)

A contracted position is widely thought of as a disadvantage, but it is actually an advantage when trying to get in the door.


Some hints on getting in the door:

The entry position doesn’t need to be directly IT related… it can be anything else as long as there’s good use of the company’s computer infrastructure (i.e. supply chain, shipping and receiving, product testing/lab … basically anything heavily database driven and critical to the company.)

Look for the entry position directly with the company first… do not approach a contracting company first. Check for company positions first and inquire with the company’s HR dept even if the listed positions are way out of reach. That will allow you to explain that you’re very interested in the company and are looking for an entry level position. This will give you the opportunity to ask (once there’s nothing available with your qualifications) which contracting company they prefer if given a choice…. you should get a good answer because you’re most likely talking to the person who has to deal with the contractors. Here’s the important part… remember the person’s name, date and time. Now you can go to the contracting company they mentioned and ask about entry level positions in that specific company. Even if you’re a contracted labor for the company ….because you were referred TO the contracting company, the company you prefer to be an employee of will not have to pay a finders fee to make you a full employee if things work out (permanent position). This sets the stage for you to use the company’s contracting company as leverage to get in and become an employee. All you have to do, once in, is work well and become the go to guy when it comes to using the company’s computer infrastructure.

What to do once your in to get into the IT dept.

Whatever group your in… try to solve your groups software/ hardware problems internally first whenever possible. Show that your interested in computer related problems and finding a solution. When problems do get referred to your IT dept…try to be the point of contact and coordinate for your coworkers (this should not be hard – a lot of people aren’t interested in broken computers and even less interested in talking ‘geek’ talk.) Also, the IT dept will prefer to have a single point of contact in your group that’s always available and more descriptive of the problem. In fact they may begin to just use you when convenient for them and open you up to IT resources.


In the end... what you do from the get go may not be as important as who you work for. A good, large company with a history of growth will provide the opportunities you need to move into the position you're looking for.

[311Sam]

Wow that's some good tips right there. Could you maybe elaborate on the "corporate waste and policy" that you talked about? Sounds like my work. We stand around for days with nothing to do and when we do have work there are so many rules that we have to follow that we can't even work. What is your job title in the aviation business?


So from what everyone describes, the computer industry is overflowing with people and hard to get into. I knew that some parts of it were overflowing, like maybe the people with a 2 year programing degree. I just never knew it as a whole. No body that I know had a problem getting in the computer field. Atleast in the programing and data entry part. They all make very good money, work 40 hours a week, and love their jobs. And here I am, hating everything possible about my current job, and I have got to do something about this.

I appreciate all the info everyone.

[cadetstimp]

Corporate waste and policy

I just felt my efforts were being wasted as the company failed to reach objectives despite the response, support and tools our dept offered. Lack of leadership and too many unproductive people hiding in a corporate atmosphere. No growth - lack of team effort and cooperation.

Got tired of supporing the players and wanted to start being a "user " for a change.

I'm part of an avionics 145 repair station - lead installer

[cpath118]

Good Luck finding a job.

This industry sucks, in the past 3 project I've been all, the testing team is in india, and half the developers are in india, working for peanuts. Plus you have to compete with China and Russia or any place in the world. Imagine for 3000 canadien dollars a year, you can live the good life in CHINA or India.

Your find that your need to be an expert in many fields before you can find a decent job which pays more than macdonalds.

- eg certify with microsoft, Certified DBA Certified with java or .net . Competent web developer (oh I mean expert) . Know many platforms Unix, Window, Solaris, Z O/S....

And note you have to keep on upgrading otherwise you fall behind quickly...

I have many friend with ooodles of experience which are un or under employed right now. Do you really want to join them.

If you don't believe me just post a want add on the Craiglist for a computer developer and see what your response is.


Cheers

[nemowolf]

Good Luck finding a job.

This industry sucks, in the past 3 project I've been all, the testing team is in india, and half the developers are in india, working for peanuts. Plus you have to compete with China and Russia or any place in the world. Imagine for 3000 canadien dollars a year, you can live the good life in CHINA or India.

Your find that your need to be an expert in many fields before you can find a decent job which pays more than macdonalds.

- eg certify with microsoft, Certified DBA Certified with java or .net . Competent web developer (oh I mean expert) . Know many platforms Unix, Window, Solaris, Z O/S....

And note you have to keep on upgrading otherwise you fall behind quickly...

I have many friend with ooodles of experience which are un or under employed right now. Do you really want to join them.

If you don't believe me just post a want add on the Craiglist for a computer developer and see what your response is.


Cheers

bitter much?


PS: don't agree with all of the previous advice given. I work for a "medium sized" company of 450 active users and 650-700 total employees and i get paid better then most of my friends who are not in IT. This was also a entry level position directly in IT and i would not have been considered for this position at the time i was hired if i had not had some previous IT related experience.

That advice may have been accurate years ago but i dont think that really applies now. I would say find your own way and not stress so much about the company because this is a war of attrition and your probably going to leave the company in 3-5 years anyways.