Tech Recruiters

[Bootlegger]

After putting my resume online, I've been getting an overwhelming response from tech recruiters (as well as a few companies) through email and voice mail. Is it bad for my "reputation" with the recruiters not to respond to most of them, as that's what I've been doing with a majority of the recruiters? Although, I do see them as a rather valuable resource, they also appear to be a dime a dozen, honestly.

And, feel free to give your opinion on tech recruiters. How have your experiences been with them? I'm sure it will be of benefit to many others to hear about other peoples' experiences with recruiters or just job searching in general.


Thanks!

[famosbrown]

Don't worry about the recruiters...they will keep calling you anyway. If the same person doesn't call, another person fromt he same agency will call. You will even see that some of you will be calling to recruit you for the same position. If you ever find yourself in this position, you could basically name your price. They get a large amount and then pay you some of it. that's if they are recruiting you for a contract position. If they are recruiting you for a permanent job, usually Head Hunters do this, then they will make their money when the company hires you. It's fun...I'm out of the game now though...VERY good money playing with them at the time though.

Famos

[Bootlegger]

Thanks for the info, famos! I appreciate it.

Seeing that I'll be new the "working world" after my last semester at school, I don't have much experience with recruiters (other than the ones that have flooded my inbox and voice mail recently ). In your experiences, do you feel that recruiters are positive to a job seeker? To me, they seem like a rather valuable resource that does most of the "work" (job searching) for you. Are there really any downsides to using recruiters?

[famosbrown]

Thanks for the info, famos! I appreciate it.

Seeing that I'll be new the "working world" after my last semester at school, I don't have much experience with recruiters (other than the ones that have flooded my inbox and voice mail recently ). In your experiences, do you feel that recruiters are positive to a job seeker? To me, they seem like a rather valuable resource that does most of the "work" (job searching) for you. Are there really any downsides to using recruiters?

it all depends on the type of recruiter. If the recruiter is asking for money from you to use their service, hang the phone up. If the recruiter is trying to fill a contract position, then go along for the ride. Since you will be new to the game, using them might land you your first job. If you work hard and perform well, even if the contract is done, they will find you more work to keep you employed and working for them. The Headhunters are even better because they are looking to recruit you for full time employment with a company. They sell you, you get hired, they get their commission, then they move on. Contracting companies will recruit you for contract work that can be short or long term, but the difference is that you are actually working for them and not the actual company. They may get 60 dollars and hour for your service and give you 25 dollars. The reason I said it was fun for me is because I used to play the recruiters. If more than one were contacting me for the same position, I would make them aware of that, so they can compete with home much they are going to give me in the cut. They didn't know that I was aware of the amount of money they get for my services, but I just played them like I wanted more money or I would go with another recruiting company for the same job. I was able to do this after only 3 months of experience after college. My last recruting/contracting company was paying 60/40 on what they were getting for me including benefits, insurance, vacation, etc. They really made their money through my overtime and they gave more percnetage because they knew I love working overtime and always did. They also negotiated the bennies, health, vacation, and other stuff with the company they are contracting for so they wouldn't have to pay it all.

Make sure you research the recruiting company thoroughly. Make sure it isn't a company who is trying to sell you learning program promising you so much money. Make sure they are legit.

What are you going to school for?If you are in college pursuing a computer science degree or any other I.T. degree that emphasized programming, I would not try to enter the Support/Networking/systems side of I.T. because you will probably have to start from the bottom and work your way up. Only go that direction if you REALLY love to do that type of work. That's what I did anyway. I first came out of college as a programmer making a HUGE amount of money. There isn't competition in the programming/software engineer field since their aren't many certs to combat with the degree and college specifically teaches it. I hated programming so I went back to what I love. I had to take a pay cut at first...not that much since I had a security clearance, but now I'm almost back up to the salary I was at when I first came out of college. Another headache...still a headache...is studying and preparing for the many certifications that go with the Support/Netowrking/Systems field of I.T. It's like you went to college for nothing, but it's great to have a degree and the certifications to stand out and demand the money you want. In the software engineer world, certifications aren't needed...just the bachelor's.

Good luck with all of your future endeavors.

Famos

[Bootlegger]

The companies that have been contacting me a majority of the time are Teksystems and Robert Half--both of which sound fairly reputable, I believe.

I actually am within the networking side of IT (albeit with a computer science minor). I do have my CCNA, and I was one test away from my CCNP--then they swapped out the damn certs for new ones. Fortunately, I recently took my last CCNP test (multi layer switching), so I still have plenty of time to actually get my CCNP. I also did a summer internship with a Fortune "50" company, so I'm hoping I have somewhat of an upper-hand now.


Man, I don't know if I like the sound of recruiting companies getting a cut of our pay, though. That just sounds like too big of a "price" to pay for just finding us a job. Am I wrong to think that?

Thanks for all this info, Famos. I really appreciate it.

[famosbrown]

Teksystems and Robert Half are reputable companies. I don't like TekSystems due to how they have short some of my previous co-workers, but it is all on how much they are willing to pay you. The part about the cut isn't really known to the employees. All the employee sees is the hourly rate of 30 bucks and hour, 4-week paid vacation, bennies, and 401K. They don't see or know that the company is being paid 100 dollars an hour and they are just getting some of it. Sometimes it's less than that. It might start off at 200 dollars an hour, then it's subcontracted to another company to find someone and they are given 100 dollars of the cut, then they subcontract to another company, then they get 50 bucks of their cut, then the employee is left getting maybe 20 dollars an hour. Again...to the employee, 20 bucks an hour isn't bad to start off, but they don't know that they are actually working for 200 bucks an hour, but not getting it . That's just how contracting companies work.

It sounds like you are already gaining experience in the field, getting certified, and pretty soon a degree. I can tell you that a CCIE will demand 6 digits from ANYONE and they will pay. It's one of the toughest cert to get, and their aren't many out their with it. Most of them are consultants for Cisco making HUGE amounts of money. With your degree and CCNP, you are in good shape as well.

Check out contracting companies such as CACI, or any other contractor that deals with the governement. They might even be willing to pay for a top secret security clearance, then you would definitely be in the money!! That is how most people get their clearances without being in the military...contracting companies paying for it...it's very lengthy and expensive process.

Good luck!!

Famos

[Bootlegger]

Thanks for all the invaluable info! Now that we have been discussing it, I do believe that I have heard of recruiters getting a percentage of an employees pay. I mean, even though we're technically not supposed to "know" about this, it still seems like employees that go through recruiters are getting the short end of the stick. Are many of the positions that recruiters offer not "advertised" to the general public, and the only way to get those positions is through the recruiter? Because, I'd much rather work directly with employers to yield maximum pay.

Anyways, thanks again for the info you shared here. If you're not sick of putting up with my non-sense , would you mind sharing what you do? I'm always interested to hear what others are up to in the field.

Thanks!

[famosbrown]

I'm currently a Systems Administrator doing Network/Systems Engineer work since our department is in its infancy. I deal with everything from Fiber throughout the area, radios on our towers for WAN connectivity, security, Active Directory, DNS, DHCP, VMWare ESX 3, BES, Exchange, policy and procedure writing, MANY proprietary software solutions, HP switches and servers, various projects to manage and oversee, etc., etc., etc. I could go on and on and on. Since we are a small shop right now, I get my hands on EVERYTHING, which is good for the experience and keeping me going thorughout the day. As the department grow, my job may become more specific or move more toward the management side in which I don't really want to go anymore.

You probably won't be able to get that close to a company to get the 200 bucks an hour because it is more to it than that. The contracting company probably has enough insurance, national notariety of quality and service, etc. Most companies, especially the government, will send out a RFQ (Request for Quote) for contractors to supply the service they are asking for. These contracting companies have plenty of working capital to produce up front since it's a know fact that the government sometimes aren't always punctual with payment. But yeah...it would be nice to be right at the head getting the upfront money .

Famos

[M_Six]

Can I butt into this thread? My first tech job came to me via a head hunter. I signed on with two companies and they kept me pretty busy with interviews. One was at a state college and even though I didn't get that particular job, the college hinted that I should apply for another job that was coming open and I did get that one. Been in academia ever since. A good head hunter will keep you in front of prospective employers. And with a degree and CCNP under your belt, you won't have any problem finding a job, unless you consider more than one offer to choose from a problem.

Keep something in mind, though. Salary isn't everything. Look at the whole package. Vacation time is important as are health care benefits. Look at retirement options also. Chances are good you will not retire with the same company you start with, so make sure every company you join has a good portable plan. Retirement plans may seem unnecessary now, but starting them early and sticking with them is what allows people to retire at 50 with a comfortable lifestyle.

Best of luck to you.

[Bootlegger]

It certainly sounds like you have your hands full, famos! And wow! That IS some great experience you're getting there. Do you enjoy doing all of that?

I appreciate your butting into the thread, M_Six! Thanks for the info! Benefits do play quite a role in the attractiveness of the overall employment package. I'll definitely be keeping my eyes open for some good bennies. And yeah, I do indeed know how important it is to start saving/investing early. I actually started taking interest in investing this past summer, and I'm also taking a personal investing class here at school for my last semester--so, I'm hoping that I'll be adequately prepared!

[famosbrown]

It certainly sounds like you have your hands full, famos! And wow! That IS some great experience you're getting there. Do you enjoy doing all of that?

I love it!! The more work that is thrown at me, the better. The day goes by much faster, and I am learning that it is possible to do one hundred things all at once . This is my first Systems/Network Admin job, so I am fortunante to wear many hats. When I do step off to a more specific role with another company, I can honestly say that I've touched and did everything in a work environment that I've learned in a book or in a classroom.

Famos

[Bootlegger]

Well, hello again! Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd just bump this one up.

I've finally started to really get into my job search. I've already met with a recruiter from Robert Half. And, tomorrow, I am meeting with another recruiter, which leads me to my question: is it ok/ethical/appropriate to work with multiple recruiters? And, if so, should I tell the recruiters that I am working with multiple firms?

Thanks!

[paul9]

is it ok/ethical/appropriate to work with multiple recruiters?

Of course it is. You are trying to secure the best possible future for yourself. Use all the resources at your disposal to do so.

And, if so, should I tell the recruiters that I am working with multiple firms?

Only if you can do it to your own advantage. Playing two parties off against each other can be tricky. Most kids can get good practical experience of this on their parents.

[ShuckyD]

when i put my resume on Monster.com i also got about 3-4 recruiters calling me... after the first one i was able to pick out the other 3 when they called (they didnt just come out and say they were a recruiting firm)

good luck on your job search

[Nude_Lewd_Man]

I don't know that much about the way it works over there, but my Mum is in HR over here (in the Land of Eng) and has dealt with all three sides of agencies/recruiters... She's used them to get herself work, to find employees and she's also done some of the recruiting... Over here it seems to be a bit different in as much that basically the prospective employee is told that the job pays (for example) £30,000 and the recruitment agency will get a percentage of - but not from - the salary of the successful applicant. That rate also varies, depending on how much the salary/rate is. I can't remember whether the rate increases or decreases (as a percentage) the higher the pay gets... Each agency will prolly have their own table stating up to £XX,000 is XX%, above that up to £XX,000 is XX%, then......................... etc

[Bootlegger]

Thanks for the info, everyone!

I actually let the recruiter today know that I was also working with Robert Half, and she was perfectly fine about it. It's probably a good thing, too, because one of the positions that both of them were recruiting for were the same one! And, after reading up a bit, it's not a good thing to let your resume get into the hands of a hiring manager when it comes from multiple recruiting firms.

If anyone else has any tidbits to throw in here about recruiters, do it! I think this thread is becoming a great resource for anyone seeking a job!

[Rootstonian]

If you're young, get into a State job (i.e. college). They don't use Social Security as retirement. My plan is that if I hit 30 years service (AT ANY age), I will retire with 62% of my highest 3 year's average salary.

For example: If my average was 100,00k a year, I would get 62k a year at retirement. This could be as early as age 50; I've know a couple of folks who have done it!

This is why our Govenors and Seanators etc. are on State of Federal Retirement system; they know Social Security SUCKS!!!!

P.S. I have 11 years in at local college


sorry for typos...i had surgery on tuesday and am at home recovering...on drugs and surgery was to my left wrist

[UncaDanno]

Working with multiple recruitment firms is fine. In fact, that is the surest way of increasing your chances. Especially if you are in the software development arena where the majority of the job listings you see are for positions that were filled long ago (or are really just copy that has been cut-and-pasted from other agencies' listings) and are there simply to fish for resumes. This gives them a stream of "fresh" resumes they can scan for possible matches to the small number of reqs for actual jobs they have. You can identify these by the fact that, after sending your resume, you never hear from them again. Or, if you have your resume stored on one or more of the job boards, you get an email from a recruiter asking for a Word version of your resume (makes it easier to scan), you respond, and that's the end of it.

If you are in networking infrastucture, the story is a bit different. Yours is the type of job where a body has to be on site in most cases to do the work. This cannot be offshored so a higher percentage of the job listings are for positions that actually exist.

Skimming a percentage of the bill rate is how the agencies get paid. They guard the margin percentage as if it were the Crown Jewels. I have known of only two agencies over the past 15 years that would actually tell you the margin. They are no longer in business. Many, trying to gain your confidence, will tell you that their margin is in the neighborhood of 25 to 35 percent. In reality, the margin is closer to 50 to 60!

Going directly to the client is getting to be a rare proposition, as well. Most of the sizeable companies have a preferred vendors list. Even if you have tons of experience and all the requisite insurance and certifications, if you aren't on the PVL, you cannot get your foot in the door. Period. The PVL is very short. It gets purged periodically and often. And it is very expensive to get/stay on the PVL (kind of like running for office!). The agencies, through their large margins, can afford to keep people on staff whose sole job is to get/stay on large companies' PVLs.

[extitude]

A good recruiter knows more than they need before they get to you.
If your worth the attention,I suggest being humble.Tell them nothing,after all they already know.

[nemowolf]

Something to look for when getting calls from Recruiters, ask them if they read the Resume.

I have been blind sided when recruiters asked me questions concerning skills/training/etc that i had not listed on my resume. For instance, Apple kept calling me because i had a background in retail with Best Buy. They called me four times in one week, each time i asked them what made them call me. Each time they said, you worked at Best Buy so you must know how to use a mac. I retorted with, where on my resume does it say anything concerning macs? Then its their turn to sit there floored.

I have also had to deal with some interesting recruiters that work near 50-60 miles away from me. Over an hour of driving since im in the Bay Area/San Francisco area. When i asked if they had any offices closer, no. I asked if they would be flexible with me and meet half way, no. I finally asked her that if she had such a "Perfect opportunity" that she wanted to give me that she was being callous not working with me. She called me the next day offering to have the HR person at the prospective company meet with me. At that point, I declined the offer.

Also, make sure to ask about the prospective company. Find out what they do and who you will be supporting as that might make or break the deal for you.

Cheers!