Bush eyes bigger military role in disasters

[Smidley]

White House says debate raises 'a lot of issues to address'

Tuesday, September 27, 2005; Posted: 12:01 a.m. EDT (04:01 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush said he wants to make it easier for the military to take charge after a disaster like Hurricane Katrina, but the White House acknowledged Monday the proposal raises "a lot of issues" that need resolution.

Critics argue that putting active-duty troops on American streets would violate a long-standing tradition that keeps the military out of domestic law enforcement.

But Bush said he wanted to improve the federal response to a "catastrophic" event like Katrina, which left more than 1,000 people dead after it struck last month.

"I want there to be a robust discussion about the best way for the federal government, in certain extreme circumstances, to be able to rally assets for the good of the people," he said.

The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 bans the armed forces from participating in police-type activity on U.S. soil.

Gene Healy, a senior editor at the conservative Cato Institute, said Bush risks undermining "a fundamental principle of American law" by tinkering with the Posse Comitatus Act.

Healy said the act does not hinder the military's ability to respond to a crisis.

"What it does is set a high bar for the use of federal troops in a policing role," he wrote in a commentary on the group's Web site. "That reflects America's traditional distrust of using standing armies to enforce order at home, a distrust that's well-justified."

Healy said soldiers are not trained as police officers, and putting them in a civilian law enforcement role "can result in serious collateral damage to American life and liberty."

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, a Texas Republican, told The Associated Press he would not favor expanding the federal government's disaster response role.

"I don't want the federal government to take over disaster response, believe me," DeLay told the AP. "Why? Bureaucracy. Bureaucracy. Bureaucracy."

Bush first raised the issue September 15, in his speech from hurricane-battered New Orleans, and mentioned it again Sunday during a briefing on Hurricane Rita at U.S. Northern Command headquarters in Colorado.

"Is there a natural disaster of a certain size that would then enable the Defense Department to become the lead agency in coordinating and leading the response effort?" Bush said he asked military leaders. "That's going to be a very important consideration for Congress to think about." (Full story)

The administration's response to Katrina, which struck near the Louisiana-Mississippi state line August 29, was widely criticized by state and local officials and some residents of the affected areas.

Bush and other federal officials argued that no one could have foreseen the failure of New Orleans' protective levees, though previous disaster drills had included that scenario.

Federal Emergency Management Agency Director Michael Brown said he was unaware that thousands of people were stranded without food or water at the city's downtown convention center until September 1.

Regular Army troops led by Lt. Gen. Russel Honore arrived in New Orleans on September 2, beginning to provide food and water, evacuating those still stranded at the Superdome and the convention center and providing a show of force to deter looters.

Brown was replaced as the director of the federal response effort less than two weeks after the storm hit, and he resigned September 12.

On September 13, Bush said Katrina "exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government. And to the extent that the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility."

On Monday, Brown told congressional investigators that he wished he had pushed more forcefully and earlier for federal troops to be brought in to restore order in New Orleans, according to a senior official familiar with the meeting.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Bush "wants to make sure that we learn the lessons from Hurricane Katrina," including the use of the military in "a severe, catastrophic-type event."

"The Department of Defense would assume the responsibility for the situation, and come in with an overwhelming amount of resources and assets, to help stabilize the situation," McClellan said. "And, certainly, we need support from state and local authorities and other federal agencies, as well."

McClellan said Bush has discussed the idea with top officers at Northern Command, with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and with "some state officials."

"There are a lot of issues to address," he said. "There are legal issues involved. You have to look at what the current law is."

Louisiana Sen. David Vitter, a Republican, said Sunday he was "very supportive" of giving the military a lead role in response to major disasters.

"After Katrina, the moment we began to turn the corner was the moment we had thousands and thousands of uniforms and boots on the ground," he told CNN.

Vitter's Democratic counterpart, Sen. Mary Landrieu, said the military "has a key role to play" but was more cautious about diminishing local and state control.

"I'm not sure the governors association or all the mayors in America would be willing to sort of step aside," she said.

Boo! Hiss!

Posse Comitatus is there for a reason. Who decides whether the situation warrants military presence and on what grounds? Leave it to a corrupt congress to make it nice and ambiguous.

Leave it alone, Bush!

[pickel]

The title of this thread should be....

"Bush eyes bigger disaster in military role"

[Vagabond]

But i thought everyone complained that Bush and the military did not act fast enought.....

[RADAR1797]

But i thought everyone complained that Bush and the military did not act fast enought.....

They did and did so to make politcal hay instead of looking at the long term implications of having the Feds usurp authority from the local officials.

-RADAR

[MTAtech]

I actually agree that we should rethink Posse Comitatus. Everyone here knows that I champion civil liberties and fear an intrusive government. However, there are situations that warrant the judicious use of the military tools for the domestic good. Obviously, the hurricane was one. The case of Shawn Nelson also comes to mind. In 1995, Nelson, an unemployed plumber stole a 60 ton tank from a National Guard compound and drove it wildly through the streets of a San Diego suburb. He destroyed 40 vehicles and other property as well as injuring several people. The police were not equipt to stop him. The military could have easily. He was eventually stopped when the tank got stuck on a freeway barrier and the police were able to cut through the tank hatch. He was shot dead.

[EpyonMelee]

Also, i agree that the military should have a more active role in these situations.

[John Prophet]

military is for fighting enemy armies....not for walking around policing the streets

will people never learn the lessons of history?

[pickel]

military is for fighting enemy armies....not for walking around policing the streets

will people never learn the lessons of history?

First, we'll need to hand over ALL our firearms.

[MTAtech]

The role of government is to use all the tools available for the benefit of the people. If a disaster occurs I don't want a 150 year old law standing in the way of rescuing people.

[RADAR1797]

Maybe we could throw out that 218 year old Constitution too...

[MTAtech]

...didn't we do that already?

[Vagabond]

I really do not want to give the gov that sort of power. There is a reason that the military does not interact with the civ population. Yes there may be some down falls, and yes they can be brought in. Just remember once you give them the power you will not beable to get it back...... Thus they only gain power and increase a presence in your life...

[RADAR1797]

...didn't we do that already?

I can point out some places where the judiciary threw out the Constitution, but I think the document was pretty darn good and should not be thrown out. Posse Comitatus was pretty well founded as well; you don't want to cede state and local authority to the military, it has been done in many places and the results were not very good.

-RADAR

[MTAtech]

Radar, point well taken. I don't mean to repeal Posse Comitatus in whole but to amend it to allow for emergencies that were not anticipated. In the 1880's, one couldn't see hurricanes on radar. There weren't helicopers that could be used to rescue citizens.

While I don't want to use the army as a police force, it seems wise to use them gingerly when necessary.

[Gomer]

It'd be nice if the National Guard and their equipment were only used for domestic purposes and with more of an emphasis on disaster response.

[Smidley]

Yes, it would be nice if the National Guard were used for, well, guarding the nation. But, that's another thread.

I agree with Vagabond about not being able to get it back. I try to stay away from "slippery-slope" rationale, but I guess I'm paranoid of Big Brother.

As I mentioned in my first post, I don't feel like this is something that should be messed with. There are too many formalities, contingencies, and opportunities for exploitation.

[John Prophet]

well, the eventual planned step and direction is:

to have U.N. troops patrolling American streets.....with all of our troops overextended doing conquests for the empire, it leaves the door open for a "good will gesture" by the U.N., in concert with the traitors that run our govt now, to bring some "neutral" troops over to "help us out"

some of you already know that many Foreign troops are here already, many drills have been done where the foreign troops "take over" a city, taking over the police stations etc etc...this is simply a fact

what do you think they are here for? do you think we have such a large population of Czechs that we need czech troops here for them? no, not for them, for us

you saw what happened with Katrina...the constitution blatantly violated and we went right along as nice obedient sheeple.....so what happens when there is a (false flag) nuke detonated and our fuhrer decides that we need to confiscate ALL of the guns and enter martial law with foreign troops patrolling our streets?

well, you need to think it through because that is exactly what they have drilled for....this is public knowledge as a few of you are already aware

also the INCONTROVERTABLE FACT is that we have dozens or hundreds of concentration camps here in America. This is an admitted fact but it is funny that it doesnt get much discussion.........who do you think they are for?? are we planning on being overran by eskimos perhaps??

see "rex84"

here, for those who wont look it up, here is the wikipedia entry



Rex 84, short for Readiness Exercise 1984, was a plan by the United States federal government to accommodate the detention of large numbers of American citizens in case of massive civil unrest or national emergency.

According to scholar Diana Reynolds:

The Rex-84 Alpha Explan (Readiness Exercise 1984, Exercise Plan), indicates that FEMA in association with 34 other federal civil departments and agencies conducted a civil readiness exercise during April 5-13, 1984. It was conducted in coordination and simultaneously with a Joint Chiefs exercise, Night Train 84, a worldwide military command post exercise (including Continental U.S. Forces or CONUS) based on multi-emergency scenarios operating both abroad and at home. In the combined exercise, Rex-84 Bravo, FEMA and DOD led the other federal agencies and departments, including the Central Intelligence Agency, the Secret Service, the Treasury, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the Veterans Administration through a gaming exercise to test military assistance in civil defense.
The exercise anticipated civil disturbances, major demonstrations and strikes that would affect continuity of government and/or resource mobilization. To fight subversive activities, there was authorization for the military to implement government ordered movements of civilian populations at state and regional levels, the arrest of certain unidentified segments of the population, and the imposition of martial rule.]





uhmm, does it get any more plain than that???


certain unidentified segments of the populations.....Christians perhaps?? those who wont take the mark? you figure it out

notice how FEMAs name is front and center....lol, and all of you continue to think that FEMA is all about helping ring natural disasters....what a joke...you see that they are totally inept in times of natural disasters....do you know why??? because that isnt their primary expertise or what they drill and plan for. They spend 6% of their $$$ on natural disasters....what do you think the other 94% goes to??


the camps are still there...google for it, chances are you have one within 50 miles of you

[SiliconJon]

...the camps are still there...google for it, chances are you have one within 50 miles of you

[MTAtech]

I didn't get the memo that it was resurrect old thread week.

[jokostel]

First, we'll need to hand over ALL our firearms.

thatd be a cold day in hell before i let that happen.