A must read... from a democrat....

[Theophylact]

Unfortunately, all those things mean we HAVE to stay. Yeah we shouldn't have been there in the first place, but now it's too late and we can't just pull out and leave chaos behind. American soldiers will pay their lives for Bush's mistake, but there is no choice but to have at least some forces left indefinitely to finish the job of nation-building."

Okay. How many American lives are you generously offering to pay? And what criteria will you apply to decide when the task of nation-building is done?

[GameManK]

Okay. How many American lives are you generously offering to pay? And what criteria will you apply to decide when the task of nation-building is done?

I don't know. Ask Bush.

Though let me say this, I don't consider the life of a person from america to be priceless relative to the life of a person from some other country.

One would hope after this people could elect and continue to elect a government that doesn't get us in such a mess again, but clearly that didn't happen after Vietnam.

Bottom line is, it would be great to get out ASAP, but do you SERIOUSLY think we can just pull out completely right now?

[TOAD6147]

...do you SERIOUSLY think we can just pull out completely right now?

That was not mentioned here and has not had any real strong support by anyone. That's just left-over right-wing talking points of why the Democrats should not have been elected.

[Front242]

Toad, I beg to disagree. It has been mentioned and was the reason some democrats got elected. MOST realize that this is not a viable option. Blind support for this war by most republicans and some democrats has forced us in a near impossible situation. The only way this is going to get fixed is if both sides put aside their differences and work together. I remain hopeful, but only time will tell.

[MTAtech]

Toad, I beg to disagree. It has been mentioned and was the reason some democrats got elected. MOST realize that this is not a viable option. Blind support for this war by most republicans and some democrats has forced us in a near impossible situation. The only way this is going to get fixed is if both sides put aside their differences and work together. I remain hopeful, but only time will tell.

No Democrat who got (re-)elected won because they wanted to withdraw tomorrow. The Democratic position has consistently been that there is some amount of time between now and forever that a time limit must be set. Differences are the specific amount of time. Most say 6 mos to 18 mos.

The purpose of setting a time-limit is to give the Iraqi government and people an opportunity to prepare to assume responsibility. Otherwise, the Iraqis have no incentive to stop the gravytrain of billions of dollars pouring into Iraq (and in the pockets of leaders.)

[cyphen]

And do you not recognize any of the differences between our presence in post-war Germany and our presence in Iraq?

Think.

Well duh! of course there are differences. we were speaking specifically about a SIMILARITY that MTA incorrectly dismissed on flawed reasoning.

So.... THINK!!!!!

[cyphen]

MTA - i don't mind the IDEA of what a timetable is supposed to do - but look at the clear effect of it.... the enemy of a free iraq simply bides their time until an american pullout with an Iraqi army unready to defend the newly freed iraq...

That's the problem with a timetable.

And i believe they DO have an impetus to get things in order. In the form of terrorists trying to kill them. I don't think the status quo is quite cushy enough for them to simply sit back and let the good times roll...

Further, it's difficult to trust the motives of people who have undermined the war at every turn.