U.S. vetoes U.N. resolution condemning Israel

[Atomic Rooster]

Yahoo News - Reuters

"UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - The United States on Saturday vetoed a
U.N. Security Council resolution urging an immediate withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza and condemning an Israeli attack there that killed 18 Palestinian civilians.

The measure defeated on Saturday was backed by Arab, Islamic and nonaligned nations and formally proposed by Qatar."


Here's my favorite part:

It would have called on the Palestinian Authority to "take immediate and sustained action to bring an end to violence, including the firing of rockets on Israeli territory."

[Theophylact]

And your point would be?

[Disley]

It's sad that the US feels it has to veto peace proposals, that have anything to do with the Israelis, and there withdrawing from Gaza, and condemn the murderous attacks it carried out on civilians, resulting in the deaths of 19 and injuries to many more.
You may have noticed in Iraq, that killing people indiscriminately has the opposite effect of stopping the resistance against the aggressors.
They become even more resolute in fighting for their freedom.
What is it, that the US owes to Israel, that it feels it must back them when they are wrong.
Giving them advanced weapons and billions in aid every year.
The US must be seen to be impartial in it's actions, if it ever wants to stabilize the middle east.

[Atomic Rooster]

Some peace proposal Disley. It calls for rocket attacks on Israel.

[Disley]

The way I read it, was to bring to an end, rocket and mortar attacks on Israel, by Palestinians, and for Israelis to withdraw from Gaza, and to be condemned for it's killing of civilians.
Both sides stopping any aggression, and returning to their own sides of the border.
Seems fair enough to me, other than the what is now, routine murderous retaliation by the Israelis, turning a skirmish into a slaughter.
For which they should be condemned by the civilized nations of the world.

[Atomic Rooster]

Yea, I completely misread that one.

So, the Israeli's must be condemned for their actions while Hamas gets off with nothing more than a slap on the wrist? Sounds fair to me.

I know I didn't misread this:

Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa said the veto "will only increase the anger" toward Israel

Increase the anger? How can the anger get any worse considering that every Arab nation would love to have Israel wiped off the face of the earth?

[Disley]

Increase the anger? How can the anger get any worse considering that every Arab nation would love to have Israel wiped off the face of the earth?

This is only partially true.
So long as Israel refuse to allow Palestinians a say in the land they were born in, there will be conflict.
Most Arab countries are not anti Jewish, but they are anti zionist.
After 9/11, Iran offered to help America destroy Al Qaeada and the Taleban, which help was accepted by the US in the field.
After this cooperation, the Iranian government asked to normalise relations with the USA. With full disclosure of it's nuclear program, acceptance of Israels right to exist. To stop supplies to hizbolah and to use it's influence to stop Palestinian attacks on Israel.
What went wrong was, it was rejected by the Bush administration, Bush refused to hold diplomatic talks with the moderate faction in Tehran, and only weeks after accepting Irans help in getting rid of the Taleban and Al Qaeda, turned around and accused Iran of being a member of the axis of evil, after Iran had offered to open up it's country to US inspections and help in the region against terrorism.
Obviously Bush and his handlers are like Israel, we have bigger and better weapons than you, so we don't need to treat you with respect.
That is not the way to change things for the better.
A wiser man would have accepted their offer, perhaps with Irans help, the turmoil in Iraq could be over, hizbolah would have ceased to be a problem, and Afghanistan and Pakistan would not be such a safe haven for terrorists.

[MTAtech]

It's sad that the US feels it has to veto peace proposals, that have anything to do with the Israelis, and there withdrawing from Gaza, and condemn the murderous attacks it carried out on civilians, resulting in the deaths of 19 and injuries to many more.

There are two issues lumped together.

The first issue is why Israel attacked in Gaza. The answer is that Palestinians were firing rockets into Israel and Israel wanted to stop it. Under those cirtumstances, aggression against an attacker is universally sanctioned and justified.

The second is whether the resulting deaths of 19 could have been mitigated. The fact is that none of us know, including the U.N., without an investigation. Calling it 'murderous' is premature.

Therefore, calls to stop firing rockets is appropriate but condemnation of Israel is premature. Thus, lumping these two ideas into one resolution is wrong.

[Disley]

The zionists that determine Israeli domestic and foreign policy have no interest in Arabs unless they are dead.
A few quotes from Israels leaders lets you see how they really think about non Jews. You defend their racist policies as much as you like, until Jewish Israelis realize that the only peace they will get is when they stop torturing and murdering the true inhabitants of Palestine, and integrate with them, like a civilized race of people would.

"I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it." —Ariel Sharon to Shimon Peres, October 3rd, 2001, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.

"We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country .... expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."
-- Theodore Herzl (from Rafael Patai, Ed. The Complete Diaries of Theodore Herzl, Vol I)

"The very point of Labor's Zionist program is to have as much land as possible and as few Arabs as possible!"
--Yitzhak Navon ("moderate" ex-Israeli president and a leading labor party politician.) Cited on p.179 of Nur Masalha's A Land without a People who cites Bernard Avishai's The Tragedy of Zionism 1985 p.340.

"When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.

"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

"We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai." David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff.

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum"
Thats typical of the Israeli attitude towards the people who have lived on this land for generations.
Until the zionists, backed by the Banks which manipulate the worlds economies, decided they wanted someone else's land and homes for their zionist homeland, to bad for the people who lived there, and you act as though the Israelis are the one's who are at risk, when they are the terrorists.
The main Jewish money lenders including the Rothschilds helped finance Hitlers rise to power and rearmament. Backing both sides in wars, they can't lose.
They don't mention this when they want sympathy for those exterminated in the Death Camps. A home for the survivors. Plus American taxpayers dollars to finance it.

[surreal]

Yea, I completely misread that one.

So, the Israeli's must be condemned for their actions while Hamas gets off with nothing more than a slap on the wrist? Sounds fair to me.

I know I didn't misread this:

Increase the anger? How can the anger get any worse considering that every Arab nation would love to have Israel wiped off the face of the earth?

Are you the real bingo's uncle?

[MTAtech]

"I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it." —Ariel Sharon to Shimon Peres, October 3rd, 2001, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.

Disley, it would be nice if you cited the source of your quotes. I researched yours and found them on the anti-semitic websites.

I also sourced them at the NGO Monitor website. NGO Monitor is a responsible source.

The following is an invention - "Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that ... I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.

Sharon never said it. The radio never reported it.

Your other "quotes" are there too. They are false.

It's disturbing that you buy into this Jew hatred.

[Disley]

I don't hate any religions or people, I only go on about Bush because he's a danger to the world.
If it were Christians or even my relatives treating the Arabs as Israel does, I would condemn them just as vigorously.
There are many Jews who speak out about the zionist policies followed by leader after leader of Israel.
I heard the idiot Olmert on the radio threatening Iran, twisting the truth as usual, he said "it may not be days or weeks before Iran has nuclear weapons, but we mean to stop them before they have them" Why doesn't nhe tell the truth, that it is more like ten years if ever.
He's just another war monger as we saw from his mass murder in Lebanon.
I am anti zionist not anti Jewish, a big difference.
As I didn't actually listen to the program in 2001, I can't guarantee it's factual, but who's to say the denial is, or has not been edited.
This is the way the whole world sees the racist oppression of the Palestinians, by Israel.
I also notice that professors in reputable American universities are being pressured into dropping courses on the middle east, by the Israel American society or some organisation. Why are they scared of the truth, McCarthyism is returning to the US in disguise, victimizing those who won't follow the sanitized version of middle east politics, that the Israelis or American zionists are trying to force on universities, by stopping millions of dollars in funding to them, if they won't teach the 'approved version.'
Where's your freedom of speech, why are they scared of American students discussing what really happens in Israel, and why.

[MTAtech]

I don't hate any religions or people, I only go on about Bush because he's a danger to the world.
If it were Christians or even my relatives treating the Arabs as Israel does, I would condemn them just as vigorously.

You claim to be even-handed but your words are not.

I just see your posts as one-sided against Israel without any reciprocal condemnation of Arabs behavior. In the case in hand, Palestinians were indiscriminately launching rockets from residential areas into Israel. The IDF responded with tanks shelling into the area that the rockets were launched. As a result, 19 or so Palestinians were killed.

Without knowing the details, you rush to judgment and call Israel’s actions “murderous” while not addressing the cause of the action. Had Palestinians not indiscriminately launching rockets into Israel, no response would have been necessary. Every nation has the right to defend against attacks over its borders.

There are many Jews who speak out about the zionist policies followed by leader after leader of Israel.

I'm not sure what that proves or even if it's true. Within a group of millions of people, one can find someone to agree with any position. There are likewise Arabs that are critical of the Palestinians too.

As I didn't actually listen to the program in 2001, I can't guarantee it's factual, but who's to say the denial is, or has not been edited?

The credibility of the respected sources. Since you didn't cite where you plucked the quote, we can't weigh credibility.

This is the way the whole world sees the racist oppression of the Palestinians, by Israel.

How do you know? In debate, this is the weakest of all arguments when one side asserts, 'everyone knows' or 'everyone feels this way.'

I also notice that professors in reputable American universities are being pressured into dropping courses on the middle east, by the Israel American society or some organisation. Why are they scared of the truth, McCarthyism is returning to the US in disguise, victimizing those who won't follow the sanitized version of middle east politics, that the Israelis or American zionists are trying to force on universities, by stopping millions of dollars in funding to them, if they won't teach the 'approved version.'

First, where did you 'notice' this? What American universities? Did you read it, hear it, or what? If you read it, where? Second, it's difficult to comment on something that you just 'noticed.' I have no way of evaluating whether it is fact or fiction.

[Disley]

I saw it on an ABC (Australian Broadcast Corporation) TV current affairs program the host was Kerry O'Brien in Australia, because they are trying similar tactics here. Maybe last week or the week before. I'll look for a transcript for you. Why should I state something that is totally untrue that I saw. You could look it up yourself, I have given you the name of the broadcaster, if you want to prove I am a liar.
It's like quoting an internet source that says something is not true, unless you heard it yourself, you will never know what is true, especially something embarrassing said by a politician, we see it all the time. If you looked on the net for proof of the statements made, there were many, as well as denials, it's up to each of us, who weren't present or listening or viewing when statements are broadcast, to decide, because censorship in the media does exist.
If you have a neutered media in the US, if you can't get a full range of views because of media ownership or a predominance of pro Israeli senior management in the industry, then it's a problem for you to address, although for you personally, I'd say it suits your point of view.
It seems Christians will vigorously debate all subjects, but for some reason, Jews need to protect Israel from any criticism.
You can deny the truth forever, and try to label me anti semitic etc, but when I see blatantly oppressive apartheid policy carried out, but only a one sided slant to the reporting, I will speak out about it.
It is the Israeli peoples job to change their governments tactics in the treatment of Palestinians, not mine, but wrong is wrong, and the treatment of the Palestinians by the Israeli system and IDF is the cause of all the troubles in the middle east, and Americas blind backing of this oppression is one of the main reasons they have become a target of terrorism.
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=4231
"Five Israelis who had worked for a moving company based in New Jersey are
being held in U.S. prisons for what the Federal Bureau of Investigation has
described as 'puzzling behavior' following the terror attack on the World
Trade Center in New York last Tuesday. ... The five had worked for the
company, which is owned by an Israeli ... the FBI had arrested the five for
'puzzling behavior'. They are said to have had been caught videotaping the
disaster and shouting in what was interpreted as 'cries of joy and
mockery'." -- Ha'aretz, Israel, Sep 17, 2001.
http://www.gatago.com/aus/politics/24042071.html
There is every point of view you can imagine out there, most making out they are the truth, we can only believe what we see, hear and understand from it.

[Disley]

There are plenty websites about the ultra right and there Israeli masters, interfereing with freedom of speech in American universities.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...articleId=1987
http://fanonite.wordpress.com/2006/1...tch-a-profile/