Ahhh, GOOD analogy

[Theophylact]

From an article in the Charlottesville, VA Daily Progress:

Slavery apology measure ignites legislative debate

By Bob Gibson
bgibson@dailyprogress.com | 978-7243
Tuesday, January 16, 2007

RICHMOND - A resolution to have Virginia apologize for slavery will encounter some opposition in the House of Delegates this month, according to legislators.

The highly symbolic issue likely to spark debate is a proposed state apology for African enslavement sponsored by black Virginia lawmakers, at least two of whom are descended from slaves.

“It is meant to be a resolution that is part of a healing process, a process that still needs to take place even today in 2007,” said one sponsor, Del. A. Donald McEachin, D-Henrico County.

“No one is asking any individual to apologize, because certainly there are no slaveholders alive today and there are no slaves alive today,” said McEachin, whose great-grandfather was born a slave.

“But Virginia is alive and well, and Virginia was built on the backs of slaves, and Virginia’s economy boomed because of slavery, and it is Virginia that ought to apologize,” he said.

Some delegates believe an apology is unnecessary and a sign of too much political correctness.

“The present commonwealth has nothing to do with slavery,” said Del. Frank D. Hargrove, R-Glen Allen, whose ancestors were French Huguenots who came to America in search of religious freedom.

How far do these calls for apologies go, wondered Hargrove, a member of the House Rules Committee that could take up McEachin’s resolution as early as Wednesday.

“Are we going to force the Jews to apologize for killing Christ?” Hargrove wondered. “Nobody living today had anything to do with it. It would be far more appropriate in my view to apologize to the Upper Mattaponi and the Pamunkey” Indians for the loss of their lands in eastern Virginia, he said. ...

(emphasis added)

(Great catch by Josh Marshall.)

[no1_vern]

I agree with his analogy.

While I deplore what was done to the people at those times, I WASNT THERE. In FACT not even my ancestors were there(they immigrated in 1889 and settled in Minnesota). The idea of requiring me or my state government to apologize for something it had nothing to do with is ludicrous.

[zen]

How can you consider this a good analogy?

Aren't you an atheist or agnostic? So do you believe Jesus exsisted and was killed by the Jews?

[no1_vern]

Your mixing me up with my friend Beemer.

O, you mean Theophylact. Pardon me...

[Theophylact]

We don't have an "irony" smiley, but I thought my comment would speak for itself. Here's the beginning of a follow-up story from today's Washington Post:

Fury Over Delegate's Remarks on Slavery
Hargrove Was Criticizing Va. Apology Idea
By Amy Gardner
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, January 17, 2007; B01

RICHMOND, Jan. 16 -- A veteran Virginia lawmaker from suburban Richmond ignited a hot exchange in the House of Delegates on Tuesday after criticizing a proposal for the state to issue an apology for slavery and likening it to requiring Jews to apologize for "killing Christ."

Del. Frank D. Hargrove Sr., a Republican from Hanover County, told lawmakers that his comments were intended only to make the point that "not a soul in this legislature" had anything to do with slavery -- and that there is no point in dwelling on a chapter of U.S. history that all agree was repugnant.

"If we keep bringing this up, bringing this up -- I think this is a harmful idea just to keep recycling this thing which we all know and all despise and have no respect for," said Hargrove, a 25-year veteran of the House.

But Hargrove's remarks, first made in a newspaper interview on the holiday honoring civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr., prompted a blistering censure from the 17-member Legislative Black Caucus. The Anti-Defamation League condemned Hargrove's comments about Jews. ...

And yes, I am an atheist. But I'm also a Jew. And I know quite enough to recognize this as a "blood libel" that even the Catholic Church now denounces.

[Epidemic]

How can you consider this a good analogy?

Aren't you an atheist or agnostic? So do you believe Jesus exsisted and was killed by the Jews?

The analogy is fine.

If everyone understands he was talking about holding a grudge over wrongs of 100 generations ago.

No indian alive ever lived as an indian ever had the fifth cavalry bear down on their settlement or had a settler give them small pox. No indian today has had land taken away (well not by anyone but a bank perhaps)

It is over/done with/ Indians made a booboo 400 years ago that ultimately stripped them of their land. the final throws of that screwup were over 100 years ago.

[zen]

We don't have an "irony" smiley, but I thought my comment would speak for itself. And yes, I am an atheist. But I'm also a Jew. And I know quite enough to recognize this as a "blood libel" that even the Catholic Church now denounces.

You make no sense whatsoever. Unless your waffling.

pssssst....I know your Jewish

[diode]

Blood libel against Jews

Main article: Blood libel against Jews

Blood libels against the Jews were a common form of anti-Semitism during the Middle Ages, though there is no ritual involving human blood in Jewish law or custom. Though the first recorded instance was in the writings of Apion, who claimed that the Jews sacrificed Greek victims in the Temple, there are no existent records of the blood libel against the Jews from that period until the legend surrounding William of Norwich in the 12th century, first recorded in the Peterborough Chronicle, but the libel afterward became an increasingly common accusation. In many cases, anti-Semitic blood libels served as the basis for a blood libel cult, in which the alleged victim of human sacrifice was worshipped as a Christian martyr, but the claim has pre-Christian origins. Many Jews were killed as a result of false blood libels, which continued into the 20th century, with the Beilis Trial in Russia and the Kielce pogrom in Poland, and the persistence of blood libel stories in the Arab world.

The blood libel resurfaced in the work of Anne Catherine Emmerich (1774–1824), a German Catholic nun and alleged visionary, when she commented (pp 547–8) in her biography that an elderly Jewish woman had told her that the blood libel was "true" and that Jews "did" steal Christian children for use in ritual sacrifices.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel

[Theophylact]

There's another kind of "blood libel": Matthew 27:25.

Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

If you read Bart Ehrman's Misquoting Jesus, you'll understand how this particular libel was inserted into what ultimately became the New Testament; and it's been the basis for anti-Semitism ever since.

[zen]

The analogy is fine.
If everyone understands he was talking about holding a grudge over wrongs of 100 generations ago.

No kidding . I happen to agree with it.

I just find it amusing that an atheist would think so. Isn't the story of Jesus a fairytale?

[Theophylact]

zen, you have a serious reading-comprehension problem. Do you know the meaning of the word "irony"? I was actually saying it's a really bad analogy, and pointing out the basic reason: Unlike the Americans, who actually were slaveowners, the Jews did not kill Christ.

Sheesh.

[Epidemic]

Jews did not kill christ???

No I guess you are technically right. the story goes that they wanted to kill him but the laws of the land required that they use the romans to achieve that ends.

So the jews set him up for a fall. They did not pound the spikes or poke him with spears butttttttt!

Are you not splitting hairs on who killed christ? (assuming he ever existed at all)

[zen]

zen, you have a serious reading-comprehension problem. Do you know the meaning of the word "irony"? I was actually saying it's a really bad analogy, and pointing out the basic reason: Unlike the Americans, who actually were slaveowners, the Jews did not kill Christ.

Sheesh.

I have many problems including reading comprehension..lol

But you suffer from a far more serious problem. Its called pompous ass syndrome. Check into it, there is help available.

Hey everyone, he actually meant a bad analogy!

[Theophylact]

Jews did not kill christ???

No I guess you are technically right. the story goes that they wanted to kill him but the laws of the land required that they use the romans to achieve that ends.

So the jews set him up for a fall. They did not pound the spikes or poke him with spears butttttttt!

Are you not splitting hairs on who killed christ? (assuming he ever existed at all)

I'm suggesting you look into the origins of the New Testament to see why that story is there. You could start with the Ehrman book I mentioned.

[zen]

I'm suggesting you look into the origins of the New Testament to see why that story is there. You could start with the Ehrman book I mentioned.

Dont forget to read what his critics have to say about him and his work before you take it as (gasp) "the gospel". lol

[Theophylact]

I have many problems including reading comprehension..lol

But you suffer from a far more serious problem. Its called pompous ass syndrome. Check into it, there is help available.

Hey everyone, he actually meant a bad analogy!

There isn't hope for the humor-challenged, though. I bet you think The Onion really is America's Finest News Source™.

[Pexster]

What do Erman's critics have to say about him? And who are they? Scholars? Erman's background and credentials are impeccable. He is one of the foremost experts in the world in his field.

[Epidemic]

I'm suggesting you look into the origins of the New Testament to see why that story is there. You could start with the Ehrman book I mentioned.

I love a good bible smashing book. but I am unwilling to pay for one. It seems silly to pay another person for his particular flavor of guess work. I already wasted money on Lee strobels guess work. Case for christ and Case for a creator. I have found beyond a shadow of a doubt that no one really knows anything only that they have their own flavor of bias. 2000 year old documentation and translations are thin and biased so the people evaluating said information easily transfer their own flavor of bias to the documentation.


Welp i read a few of Ehrman's interviews... he seems like a guestimator like the rest. Theo do you find he especially credible and why?

[zen]

There isn't hope for the humor-challenged, though. I bet you think The Onion really is America's Finest News Source™.

Apparently your idea of humor is far different from mine. And I'm familiar with the onion you pompous ass! (j\k)

btw, the 3 guys after you missed your "humor" so you might wanna work on that.

[zen]

What do Erman's critics have to say about him? And who are they? Scholars? Erman's background and credentials are impeccable. He is one of the foremost experts in the world in his field.

google