January 17th, 2007, 11:32 AM
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#1 (permalink)
| | Ultimate Member
Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: inside the Beltway
Posts: 5,090
| What $1.2 Trillion Can Buy Quote:
The human mind isn’t very well equipped to make sense of a figure like $1.2 trillion. We don’t deal with a trillion of anything in our daily lives, and so when we come across such a big number, it is hard to distinguish it from any other big number. Millions, billions, a trillion — they all start to sound the same.
The way to come to grips with $1.2 trillion is to forget about the number itself and think instead about what you could buy with the money. When you do that, a trillion stops sounding anything like millions or billions.
For starters, $1.2 trillion would pay for an unprecedented public health campaign — a doubling of cancer research funding, treatment for every American whose diabetes or heart disease is now going unmanaged and a global immunization campaign to save millions of children’s lives.
Combined, the cost of running those programs for a decade wouldn’t use up even half our money pot. So we could then turn to poverty and education, starting with universal preschool for every 3- and 4-year-old child across the country. The city of New Orleans could also receive a huge increase in reconstruction funds.
The final big chunk of the money could go to national security. The recommendations of the 9/11 Commission that have not been put in place — better baggage and cargo screening, stronger measures against nuclear proliferation — could be enacted. Financing for the war in Afghanistan could be increased to beat back the Taliban’s recent gains, and a peacekeeping force could put a stop to the genocide in Darfur.
All that would be one way to spend $1.2 trillion. Here would be another: The war in Iraq. ...
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January 17th, 2007, 12:11 PM
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#2 (permalink)
| | Ultimate Member
Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Del Rey Oaks, CA, US
Posts: 3,168
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I'm always skeptical of economic analyses that factor in opportunity costs and multiplier effects, but even so, the conclusion is compelling and beyond rebuke. I wish that every single time the White House or the Republicans open their mouths about the costs of a Democratic proposal, this would get thrown back in their faces. Bush has no right to ever speak about fiscal restraint or responsilbility!  |
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January 17th, 2007, 12:26 PM
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#3 (permalink)
| | MR Meek and Mild
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: almost Virginia
Posts: 3,870
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WWIII is coming.
How much would Stopping WWIII be worth? I don't know if President Bush's strategy is going to work. But I do know that status quo is going to result in WWIII. And I am betting that it will be way more expensive than 3000 lives and a trillion dollars.
WWIII was on an undenyable path if we did nothing. Was our action the right one? Well it appeared to me to be better than other ones on the table.
I will tell you this one more 911 class hit on the us and 1.2 trillion is gonna sound like chump change with Cancer and preschool not being of interest. |
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January 17th, 2007, 12:32 PM
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#4 (permalink)
| | Ultimate Member
Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: inside the Beltway
Posts: 5,090
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Epidemic WWIII is coming.
How much would Stopping WWIII be worth? I don't know if President Bush's strategy is going to work. But I do know that status quo is going to result in WWIII. And I am betting that it will be way more expensive than 3000 lives and a trillion dollars.
WWIII was on an undenyable path if we did nothing. Was our action the right one? Well it appeared to me to be better than other ones on the table.
I will tell you this one more 911 class hit on the us and 1.2 trillion is gonna sound like chump change with Cancer and preschool not being of interest. | Ah, so then you're saying that September 11 is connected with the Iraq war? Funny, even Bush isn't saying that.
For the record, I've said over and over again that I think the war in Afghanistan was not only justified, but essential. The Times piece points out that some of the money being pissed away on Iraq could be spent to give us a chance of actually winning in Afghanistan. |
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January 17th, 2007, 01:13 PM
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#5 (permalink)
| | MR Meek and Mild
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: almost Virginia
Posts: 3,870
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911 is absolutely connected to iraq. You can not even deny that.
Not in the way you assert but ultimately Iraq events would not have taken place were it not for 911.
911 changed the burden of proof if for nothing more than a brief time. But I think one of these nutcases in the middle east is gonna nuke israel the US or other and all bets are off.
Iraq may have been innocent of the charges but their downfall was due primarily to some morons with planes.
and wrong reasons or not Saddam sucked. Iraqi's had a sucky life (now we know it can be worse) Had the world rallied behind the iraqi people with treasure and troops we still could have made this a win win for everyone involved. Instead the powerstruggle and PR war took centerstage with people trying to achieve political points and now we are in a lose lose situation.
Could we have avoided the iraqi situation... perhaps but it would not have stopped the comming unrest AFAIAC |
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January 17th, 2007, 01:17 PM
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#6 (permalink)
| | Ultimate Member
Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: MSU- E. Lansing, MI
Posts: 4,964
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Epidemic Had the world rallied behind the iraqi people with treasure and troops | Don't you remember the "Coalition of the Willing"? I think the Bush Admin claimed 80 or so countries were rallying treasure and troops. |
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January 17th, 2007, 02:17 PM
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#7 (permalink)
| | Ultimate Member
Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: inside the Beltway
Posts: 5,090
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Epidemic 911 is absolutely connected to iraq. You can not even deny that. Not in the way you assert but ultimately Iraq events would not have taken place were it not for 911. | I'm not so sure. The Project for a New American Century was pimping for invading Iraq long before September 11, and just look at its cast of characters: Quote: Elliott Abrams Gary Bauer William J. Bennett Jeb Bush Dick Cheney Eliot A. Cohen Midge Decter Paula Dobriansky Steve Forbes Aaron Friedberg Francis Fukuyama Frank Gaffney Fred C. Ikle Donald Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad I. Lewis Libby Norman Podhoretz Dan Quayle Peter W. Rodman Stephen P. Rosen Henry S. Rowen Donald Rumsfeld Vin Weber George Weigel Paul Wolfowitz | Given those guys pushing Junior's Oedipus complex buttons, it was only a matter of time. |
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January 17th, 2007, 02:46 PM
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#8 (permalink)
| | MR Meek and Mild
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: almost Virginia
Posts: 3,870
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With out 911 I do not believe it would have happened. at best a campaign of lobbing missiles but to comitt troops takes a little more omph. |
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January 17th, 2007, 04:15 PM
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#9 (permalink)
| | Ultimate Member
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia
Posts: 2,066
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Any way you look at it, the invasion of Iraq was foisted on the people with lies.
Iraq has been the biggest balls up in human, strategic and monetary costs.
Those responsible should resign in shame, but they have nothing human left.
So they will continue to blame everyone else, instead of themselves.
__________________
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office" - Aesop
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January 17th, 2007, 09:11 PM
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#10 (permalink)
| | Ultimate Member
Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,493
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Oh, the war in Iraq makes you sick to your liberal stomach? Why are you so selective in your disgust of wasteful government spending? You think its money down the drain? Bullcrap. Below is money down the drain. At least we're showing some balls in the middle east, and ..what a coincindence, we're sitting right next to Iran. You want real waste? Try these on for size, its your basic top ten list. 1. The Missing $25 Billion
Buried in the Department of the Treasury’s 2003 Financial Report of the United States Government is a short section titled “Unreconciled Transactions Affecting the Change in Net Position,” which explains that these unreconciled transactions totaled $24.5 billion in 2003
The unreconciled transactions are funds for which auditors cannot account: The government knows that $25 billion was spent by someone, somewhere, on something, but auditors do not know who spent it, where it was spent, or on what it was spent. Blaming these unreconciled transactions on the failure of federal agencies to report their expenditures adequately, the Treasury report con*cludes that locating the money is “a priority.”
The unreconciled $25 billion could have funded the entire Department of Justice for an entire year. 2. Unused Flight Tickets Totaling $100 Million
A recent audit revealed that between 1997 and 2003, the Defense Department purchased and then left unused approximately 270,000 commercial airline tickets at a total cost of $100 million. Even worse, the Pentagon never bothered to get a refund for these fully refundable tickets. The GAO blamed a system that relied on department personnel to notify the travel office when purchased tickets went unused.[3]
Auditors also found 27,000 transactions between 2001 and 2002 in which the Pentagon paid twice for the same ticket. The department would purchase the ticket directly and then inex*plicably reimburse the employee for the cost of the ticket. (In one case, an employee who allegedly made seven false claims for airline tickets professed not to have noticed that $9,700 was deposited into his/her account). These additional transactions cost taxpayers $8 million.
This $108 million could have purchased seven Blackhawk helicopters, 17 M1 Abrams tanks, or a large supply of additional body armor for U.S. troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. 3. Embezzled Funds at the Department of Agriculture
A recent audit revealed that employees of the Department of Agriculture (USDA) diverted mil*lions of dollars to personal purchases through their government-issued credit cards. Sampling 300 employees’ purchases over six months, investigators estimated that 15 percent abused their government credit cards at a cost of $5.8 million. Taxpayer-funded purchases included Ozzy Osbourne concert tickets, tattoos, lingerie, bartender school tuition, car payments, and cash advances. 4. Credit Card Abuse at the Department of Defense
The Defense Department has uncovered its own credit card scandal. Over one recent 18-month period, Air Force and Navy personnel used govern*ment-funded credit cards to charge at least $102,400 for admission to entertainment events, $48,250 for gambling, $69,300 for cruises, and $73,950 for exotic dance clubs and prostitutes.[5] 5. Medicare Overspending
Medicare wastes more money than any other federal program, yet its strong public support leaves lawmakers hesitant to address program effi*ciencies, which cost taxpayers and Medicare recip*ients billions of dollars annually.
For example, Medicare pays as much as eight times what other federal agencies pay for the same drugs and medical supplies.[6] The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) recently com*pared the prices paid by Medicare and the Depart*ment of Veterans Affairs (VA) health care program for 16 types of medical equipment and supplies, which account for one-quarter of Medicare’s equip*ment and supplies purchases. The evidence showed that Medicare paid an average of more than double what the VA paid for the same items. The largest difference was for saline solution, with Medicare paying $8.26 per liter compared to the $1.02 paid by the VA.[7] (See Table 1.) 6. Funding Fictitious Colleges and Students
In 2002, the Department of Education received an application to certify the student loan participa*tion of the Y’Hica Institute in London, England. After approving the certification, the department received and approved student loan applications from three Y’Hica students and disbursed $55,000.
The Education Department administrators over*looked one problem: Neither the Y’Hica Institute nor the three students who received the $55,000 existed. The fictitious college and students were created (on paper) by congressional investigators to test the Department of Education’s verification pro*cedures. All of the documents were faked, right down to naming one of the fictional loan student applicants “Susan M. Collins,” after the Senator requesting the investigation.[12]
Such carelessness helps to explain why federal student loan programs routinely receive poor man*agement reviews from government auditors. At last count, $21.8 billion worth of student loans are in default, and too many cases of fraud are left undetec*ted.[13] Tracking students across federal programs, verifying loan application data with IRS income data, and implementing controls to prevent the dis*bursement of loans to fraudulent applicants could save taxpayers billions of dollars. 7. Manipulating Data to Encourage Spending
The Army Corps of Engineers spends $5 billion annually constructing dams and other water projects. Yet, in a massive conflict of interest, it is also charged with evaluating the science and eco*nomics of each proposed water project. The Corps’ “strategic vision” calls on managers to increase their budgets as rapidly as possible, which requires approving as many proposed projects as possible.[14] Consequently, the Corps has repeatedly been accused of deliberately manipulating its economic studies to justify unworthy projects. 8. State Abuse of Medicaid Funding Formulas
Significant waste, fraud, and abuse pervade Medicaid, which provides health services to 44 million low-income Americans. While states run their own Medicaid programs, the federal govern*ment reimburses an average of 57 percent of each state’s costs.
This system gives states an incentive to overre*port their Medicaid expenditures in order to receive larger federal reimbursements. Not sur*prisingly, the GAO has identified state schemes that shift money between state accounts to create an illusion of higher Medicaid expenditures. Simi*larly, some states have spent their federal Medicaid dollars on non-Medicaid purposes. Tight state budgets like those experienced by most states today have increased the pressure to use such deceptive tactics.
The GAO and the HHS Inspector General have also uncovered some states’ practice of recovering improper payments, retaining the funds, and then spending them on unrelated programs—a practice that costs the federal government well over $2 bil*lion per year. Congress could enact legislation to prohibit these actions more effectively. 9. Earned Income Tax Credit Overpayments
The earned income tax credit (EITC) provides $31 billion in refundable tax credits to 19 million low-income families. The IRS estimates that $8.5 billion to $9.9 billion of this amount—nearly one-third—is wasted in overpayments. 10. Redundancy Piled on Redundancy
Government’s layering of new programs on top of old ones inherently creates duplication. Having sev*eral agencies perform similar duties is wasteful and confuses program beneficiaries who must navigate each program’s distinct rules and requirements.
Last edited by zen : January 17th, 2007 at 09:14 PM.
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