Ron Paul for President

[Toadman]

Some candidates haven't forgotten. Neither will a very large voting block.

[Smidley]

http://www.reuters.com/article/press...008+BW20080105

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7744.html

[Toadman]

A little CNN exposure then?

[lost-and-found]

Sent a couple protest e-mails to Fox News. Rock on Ron Paul!

[Beemer]

A thought came to me after watching the vid's Smidley provided back in comment #510. Paul is going to leave a legacy of supporters as well as non supporters taking on some of his well founded ideas. He's definitely creating a thorn in the side of future Presidents.

I didn’t like his removing education from under federal control but I did like his stance on welfare reform. I liked a lot of what he had to say in the interview and it would be great if he did get in for a term. What a shake-up that would be. lol

If nothing else, he's going to get folks thinking again.

Saying the word Republican doesn't leave such a bad taste in my mouth after watching that vid. Thanks Smidley.

[Toadman]

Check out the RP message board

[Beemer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoloCamo

Evolution is a very, very minor detail, and it should be for one running for this countries presidency. There are far more serious issues plaguing this nation that need to be addressed.

You've framed your argument around the present time with no thought of how the future will depend on securing science and technology today. Ron Paul's comment that he doesn't believe in evolution is worrisum although my fears were a little relieved by the vid Smidley provided.

But, what if Paul or another creationist gets into office, sooner or later recognising their evangelical impairative? Will they be able to go against their religious teachings when presented with a proposal of teaching creationism/I.D.? What will their opinion be? Remember that a President can hide their influence on an issue very easily to obscure blame.

I went looking for a dollar and cent amount that would be lost due to teaching creation science in public schools. Here's my question:

Presently I'm looking for a detailed account of how teaching creation/I.D. can affect a country economically. Just saying the effects will be felt in biomedical research has no meaning considering science in general has no tangible relevance to the average Joe at this point. I want an argument based on what everybody understands.

Money!

Looking through the index of this book there was no mention of a dollar and cent amount. Only the same old argument of the various types research that will be affected down the road.

Read this news item and you'll see what I mean. There's a gap of relevance that needs to be filled.

US doomed if creationist president elected: scientists
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080104...BHxVYBnyE7Xs8F

Here's the answer I received.

Quote:

Originally Posted by raven

Presently I'm looking for a detailed account of how teaching creation/I.D. can affect a country economically.

Not sure that you can run a program and get a value like 10 trillion dollars. But qualitatively it is correct and provable.

1. Look at highly religious societies and where they are. Most Moslem ones are still in the dark ages. The ones that are not are due to a geographic accident, they sit in deserts floating on oil. It is estimated that the Arabs imported a trillion dollars worth of western science and technology because they don't do their own. This estimate comes from Arabs who are now starting to put some money into science because they have more oil money than they know what to do with.

2. The USA is the world's last superpower, economic engine and so on. So what is our edge?
A. Is it natural resources? No, we have our share but the former USSR has more.

B. Climate? No. Europe is also temperate.

C. Population? No. China and India have the cheap skilled and unskilled labor niche with 2.3 billion people between them.

D. Is it science and technology? The USA spends between 1/3 and 1/2 of the total world R&D with 4.5% of the world's population. Our edge is being the world leader in R&D. That coupled with a relatively free political system and an entrepreneurial capitalist economy gives us...us.

Science + freedom + capitalism = prosperity.

The cultists Xians want to kill science while flushing our freedoms into the sewer. This is stupid and suicidal.

Toynbee predicted this. 18 of 22 civilizations that fell, fell from within. We might be looking at 23 here.

Another way to look at it qualitatively. Evolutionary thought plays a critical role in medicine and agriculture. We almost had a pandemic with SARS and are now watching H5N1 bird flu. Evolution predicts that sooner or later, a new bug will kill millions or tens of millions. One already has within memory, HIV/AIDS. Evolution only matters if you eat and want to live.

[Beemer]

And another offering from PZ Myers community of friends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olorin

Gene Goldring (#29) asks about the economic effect of teaching ID/creo. There are some historical examples of interfering with science for ideological purposes.

In the 10thC, the scientific capital of the world was Baghdad. Islamic science built upon Greek science and surpassed it. Then the mullahs began to fear that all this knowledge was leading the ummah away from faith. But a renascent Europe was ready to receive the science. Islamic science never recovered.

Trofim Lysenko's story is well known. Even after collectivization, Russia exported grain to the world. By the time Lysenko was finally canned, the USSR was importing millions of tons to avoid famine. Russian biology has still not recovered.

Nazi Germany replaced professors who taught the "Jewish science" of relativity and quantum physics with second-string hacks. Many of the first-stringers ended up on our side, and developed the atomic bomb before Germany could. Sixty years later, German physics has still not fully recovered.

[Toadman]

Quote:

But, what if Paul or another creationist gets into office, sooner or later recognising their evangelical impairative?

Baptist
Warren Harding
Harry Truman
Jimmy Carter (Southern Baptist) (after serving as president, Carter broke with the SBC over its stand on the submission of women)
Bill Clinton (Southern Baptist)

Catholic
John F. Kennedy
Congregationalist
Calvin Coolidge
Disciples of Christ
James Garfield
Lyndon Johnson
Ronald Reagan
Dutch Reformed
Martin Van Buren
Theodore Roosevelt

Episcopal
The first seven presidents listed below were all from Virginia. Until 1786, the Episcopal Church was the "state church" of Virginia.
George Washington
Thomas Jefferson (sympathetic to Unitarianism and Deism)
James Madison [also Deist]
James Monroe [possibly Deist]
William Henry Harrison
John Tyler
Zachary Taylor
Franklin Pierce
Chester A. Arthur
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Gerald Ford
George H. W. Bush

Jehovah's Witnesses
Dwight D. Eisenhower (later Presbyterian)

Methodist
James Polk (originally Presbyterian)
Ulysses Grant (allegedly; his theology is unknown)
William McKinley
George W. Bush (originally Episcopal)

Presbyterian
Andrew Jackson
James Polk (later Methodist)
James Buchanan
Grover Cleveland
Benjamin Harrison
Woodrow Wilson
Dwight D. Eisenhower (originally Jehovah's Witnesses)

Quaker
Herbert Hoover
Richard Nixon

No denominational affiliation
Abraham Lincoln
Andrew Johnson
Ulysses Grant
Rutherford Hayes

Deist
Thomas Jefferson (sympathetic to Unitarianism)
James Madison (fraternized Episcopal)
James Monroe (disputed)
John Tyler (also Episcopal)
Abraham Lincoln (disputed)

Unitarian
John Adams
John Quincy Adams
Millard Fillmore
William Howard Taft

Disputed
James Monroe
Martin Van Buren
William Henry Harrison
John Tyler
Zachary Taylor
Abraham Lincoln
Ulysses Grant
Lyndon Johnson

Let's stay on thread topic, shall we?

[Beemer]

Can you tell me which ones had an opinion on evolution please, and it is on topic.