August 15th, 2007, 12:45 PM #1
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That September "report" from General Petraeus
that everyone's so eagerly awaiting? It's not coming from him. He (and Ambassador Crocker) will "have input", but the White House is going to write it:Administration and military officials acknowledge that the September report will not show any significant progress on the political benchmarks laid out by Congress. How to deal in the report with the lack of national reconciliation between Iraq's warring sects has created some tension within the White House.
Despite Bush's repeated statements that the report will reflect evaluations by Petraeus and Ryan Crocker, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, administration officials said it would actually be written by the White House, with inputs from officials throughout the government.
And though Petraeus and Crocker will present their recommendations on Capitol Hill, legislation passed by Congress leaves it to the president to decide how to interpret the report's data.
The senior administration official said the process had created "uncomfortable positions" for the White House because of debates over what constitutes "satisfactory progress."
During internal White House discussion of a July interim report, some officials urged the administration to claim progress in policy areas such as legislation to divvy up Iraq's oil revenue, even though no final agreement had been reached. Others argued that such assertions would be disingenuous.
"There were some in the drafting of the report that said, 'Well, we can claim progress,' " the administration official said. "There were others who said: 'Wait a second. Sure we can claim progress, but it's not credible to . . . just neglect the fact that it's had no effect on the ground.' "
The Defense official skeptical of the troop buildup said he expected Petraeus to emphasize military accomplishments, including improving security in Baghdad neighborhoods and a slight reduction in the number of suicide bomb attacks. But the official said he did not believe such security improvements would translate into political progress or improvements in the daily lives of most Iraqis.
"Who cares how many neighborhoods of Baghdad are secured?" the official said. "Let's talk about the rest of the country: How come they have electricity twice a day, how come there is no running water?"I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it. --J.S. Mill
August 15th, 2007, 01:55 PM #2And though Petraeus and Crocker will present their recommendations on Capitol Hill, legislation passed by Congress leaves it to the president to decide how to interpret the report's data.The timing of death, like the ending of a story, gives a changed meaning to what preceded it. -Mary Catherine Bateson-
August 15th, 2007, 02:27 PM #3
I'm shocked that this White House will write the September report, which will likely state how much a success the surge is. What shocks me is that I expected that it was already written by the time the surge began.Conservatives: "If the facts disagree with our opinion, ignore the facts -- or at least misrepresent them."
August 15th, 2007, 03:00 PM #4
Bottom line is if the point of the so-called "surge" is to provide a window for the Iraqi government to begin to resolve and reconcile the vast differences that divide the country, and they show no inclination to do so, it can never be called a "success."
I heard Bill Kristol on The Daily Show a day or so ago. The man represents the utterly delusional thinking of this administration. When, oh when will they give some credence to the idea that just maybe we are enabling the status quo, not improving it? That maybe telling the Iraqi government that we will be leaving them to ther own devices soon will prompt them to action? That maybe it is the only thing that will do so?
August 15th, 2007, 03:50 PM #5
I saw that interview too. Kristol has been wrong about everything but still makes a living as a guest on newshows. I wish someone would ask, "why should we listen to you, you've been wrong from day one."Conservatives: "If the facts disagree with our opinion, ignore the facts -- or at least misrepresent them."
August 16th, 2007, 03:22 PM #6Conservatives: "If the facts disagree with our opinion, ignore the facts -- or at least misrepresent them."
August 18th, 2007, 12:16 AM #7
"Honest Report" ??????
More B.S. and lies.... from the master furor and his band of crooks. Have our coal
workers drill a hole and suck all the oil out of Iraq, then cut out. That's the only reason our boys are dying for. Hypocritical bastardshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOtab0BKOGY
The Nation which forgets it's defenders will itself be forgotten
You cannot make peace with dictators. You have to destroy them–wipe them out!
August 18th, 2007, 01:49 AM #8
More Democrat and their Media outlets lying to America.
The law regarding Patereas report, drafted by the Democrat idiot congress says:
"The President shall deliver..."
the 2007 supplemental funding bill for the Iraq war requires that President Bush submit the report to Congress and that Petraeus "be made available to testify in open and closed sessions before the relevant committees of the Congress."
The Democrat media spin machine is already trashing Patraeus's report, because your entire election stragety is based on America losing in the middle east and blaming it on Bush. A win in Iraq will have insufferable consequences for the "White Flag" Democrats, and the credibility of the whole Democrat party.
I wouldn't put it past the Democrats to arm the insurgents to keep the battle going until the election.
Last edited by Chuckiechan; August 18th, 2007 at 01:52 AM."The world burns while Obama Tweets."
August 18th, 2007, 03:44 AM #9
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The only media outlets lying to the people, repeat word for word what this administration has told them, there is no independence in journalism anymore, they are the lackey's of the corporate empires who are the arms industry, which own the pentagon and administration, this is why so many retired military personnel are recruited by these companies.
The man who ran CNN's news operation during the invasion of Iraq is now doing damage control in response to a new documentary's evidence that he kowtowed to the Pentagon on behalf of the cable network. His current denial says a lot about how "liberal media" outlets remain deeply embedded in the mindsets of pro-military conformity.CNN is among the news outlets at the core of the myth of "the liberal media" -- perpetuated, in part, by the fact that people are often overly impressed by the significance of rhetorical attacks on some media organizations by more conservative outlets. (Before his resignation from CNN in 2005, Eason Jordan was himself subjected to denunciations from the right -- for allegedly skewing news coverage to curry favor with the Baghdad government during Saddam's rule and, after the invasion, for reportedly stating that U.S. troops had targeted some journalists in Iraq.) But antipathy from right-wing pundits is hardly an indication of journalistic independence.
Iraqi Shiites, Kurds Announce New Political Alliance
Largest Sunni Bloc Shuns Reconciliation Effort; Officials Tour Scene of Massive Bombings in North.
August 18th, 2007, 08:15 AM #10
Wait a minute Chuck. The President has been crowing, "the surge is working... Don't jump to early conclusions... wait until Sept when the General gives his report." Now we learn that the General's report will be written by the White House who have concluded that the surge was successful before it even started.
In your mind that's a fair assessment? The people who have been pushing the surge get to decide whether it was successful.
August 18th, 2007, 09:44 AM #11
Crocker and the top U.S. general in Iraq, General David Petraeus are due to present a pivotal report to Congress in September on progress on the military and political fronts and make recommendations on the way forward
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He said the U.S. military buildup, which has succeeded in reducing sectarian violence, and new alliances formed with Sunni Arab sheikhs that have pacified volatile Anbar province had brought Maliki's government to a cross-roads.
He's already decided that the figures don't count, and the surge is a success.
The troops reduce violence in Anbar, but there's more attacks and deaths in the rest of the country, then as soon as they leave Anbar, the violence will start up again.
It'll be the same in every province they target, they'd need more that half a million troops to be able to spread them out around the country to have an effect on the bombings and murders, but then the troops would take the the casualties.
August 18th, 2007, 11:58 AM #12Now we learn that the General's report will be written by the White House who have concluded that the surge was successful before it even started.
It makes sense since a General answers to the Commander in Chief. Either way, it is what it is. That's the way the law was written by congress, and the liars in your party and your media are ignoring this fact.
This isn't simple politics. This is a lie, and a provable one at that."The world burns while Obama Tweets."
August 18th, 2007, 05:52 PM #13
August 18th, 2007, 08:22 PM #14Originally Posted by MTA
You have taken meaningless votes for publicity, yet you have the power to cut funding and end it. Instead you keep it going while you cry alligator tears over the dead GI's. All you are interested in is embarrassing the President and trying to engineer a military and political defeat for America and hope it's citizens will reward you with control in '08.
Not likely. I don't think Hillary can win."The world burns while Obama Tweets."
August 18th, 2007, 09:24 PM #15
On the contrary, I applaud reports that contain metrics that support the report's conclusion, whether it supports my position or refutes it. Such reporting was possible in past administrations but this one has made an art of politicizing facts. During the Cuban missile crisis, President Kennedy offered to show the President of France evidence of the missiles. His response was, "the word of the President of the United States is good enough for me." Can anyone imagine that happening today?
I do agree that too many elected Democratic Senators/Congressfolk lack the courage to do what must be done. I'm busy trying to perform backbone implants. The word on the street is that many contributors to congressional campaigns are voicing outrage at the spineless ones.
But the fact that Congress votes in favor of budget authorizations that Bush requests doesn't hold Bush harmless.
Last edited by MTAtech; August 18th, 2007 at 09:32 PM.
August 18th, 2007, 11:05 PM #16
So it's the Dems fault now, Chuck, because they have the power to cut funding, yet haven't? That statement is arrant nonsense and you know it.
If they actually did so, of course, you would blame them for that, too.
August 18th, 2007, 11:20 PM #17So it's the Dems fault now, Chuck, because they have the power to cut funding, yet haven't? That statement is arrant nonsense and you know i
And yes, if they cut funding they would be responsible for US forces to be routed out the middle east, hanging from the skids of helicopters. It's a goal the Democrats can only pray for, as long as they can blame the Republicans for it. If they cut funding they can't very well blame Republicans, can they?
If the American public believes the war is turning around and can reach a pro American conclusion, this presents the worst possible outcome for the Dem's.
Harry Reid, Speaker of the Senate: "The war is lost".
Sorry Harry, it looks like you are losing.
Last edited by Chuckiechan; August 18th, 2007 at 11:22 PM."The world burns while Obama Tweets."
August 18th, 2007, 11:50 PM #18
I'll try to say this politely. They do not have the means to do so; not in any responsible way. There are many reasons for this, but the two major ones are that they still have an intransigent moron in the White House to deal with, and they do not have 60 votes in the Senate.
But also important is the fact that most Dems want a responsible, ordered withdrawal and timeline, yet they have no means of forcing their way into the planning. They cannot micro-manage the President; he's too fucking stubborn and ignorant to listen and engage, so they are left with your own suggested choices, which are no good.
You really take the cake here, Chuck. Your beloved President and his lackeys got us into this mess with your full support and encouragement, and now they don't know what to do. Meanwhile, a few die-hard guys like you who are still suffering from the effects of Viet Nam and the '60s refuse to engage with a thing called reality.
OK, I failed in my initial attempt at politeness, but your pure unadulterated horseshit is wearing!
August 19th, 2007, 02:33 AM #19
Poor, poor, baby... You fit right in. Just like the looney left. You don't get your way and you throw a temper tantrum.
The thread was about Petraeus's report that you and your fellow travelers are saying is all a con job because he isn't giving the report himself. In the authorization, they required Bush to present the report, now you and yours are claiming something is amiss because Petraeus isn't giving the report himself. Your idiots wrote the law and required Bush to present the report. Exactly what is the problem?
What's amiss is you and your's have been caught in another, bigger lie. I know you'll argue that it wasn't the biggest, and you are probably right.
Don't get all pouty. Mommy still wants you to vote for her!"The world burns while Obama Tweets."
August 19th, 2007, 03:46 AM #20
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If the surge is working, show us the facts. If it's turning things around and can reach a pro American conclusion, let us know what makes that conclusion a fact.
If it's measured in GI deaths or Iraqi civilian deaths, or Insurgent deaths, give us the numbers that prove this. Because claiming to have cleared a region of insurgency is like claiming you made the tide go out, it'll be back as soon as you leave.
Tell us where you can see light at the end of the tunnel.
We know already that no matter what criteria is used by the whitehouse, they'll say the surge is succeeding, but it will take a long time to clear the whole country, but we can do it, if we're give the time and equipment, which is another way of saying more of the same. After six years of lies from this president and his administration of crooks and liars, we can be sure that they'll get a simple by-line, and repeat it, repeat it, repeat it.
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