August 17th, 2007, 01:52 PM #1
Passports needed for Domestic flights? UGH!
Anyone remember the 2005 act (the Real ID act)? A lot of states are arguing that it is NOT needed, and that the feds can go **** themselves. Well because of the problems many of the states are creating for the nation(I DONT think STANDING UP FOR OUR RIGHTS is the real problem with this issue) anyone who intends to fly next year, or go to a National Park/Preserve might need their PASSPORTS with them to make the trip.Americans may need passports to board domestic flights or to picnic in a national park next year if they live in one of the states defying the federal Real ID Act.
"For terrorists, travel documents are like weapons," Chertoff said. "We do have a right and an obligation to see that those licenses reflect the identity of the person who's presenting it."
Chertoff said the Real ID program is essential to national security because there are presently 8,000 types of identification accepted to enter the United States.
Am I the only one who sees this not only as a waste of money but a waste of resources that can be better used elsewhere in our "fight against terrorism"??They say technology slows down for no one. I know it outruns my wallet. I figure its because my wallet isn't light enough yet.
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August 17th, 2007, 02:25 PM #2
I can remember when we made a HUGE deal about the Soviets requiring passports for internal travel. It was the very image of the totalitarian state. "It can't happen here," we said.
Sigh...I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it. --J.S. Mill
August 17th, 2007, 02:27 PM #3
Remember the old movies about Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia when the secret police would stop you anywhere and demand to see your papers? We're getting closer to that every day in the US (Land of the Free). My guess is that before the end of the decade all vehicles will be required to have GPS tracking devices and black boxes which will record all your movements. You'll get speeding tickets in the mail without ever having seen a cop or a camera. England is already there. We're not far behind. These bastards won't be happy until they can track every person in the country.
Cue up Chuckster or Ep to accuse me of fear mongering.
EDIT: I see I'm not the only one thinking along these lines.You can't fix stupidity.
August 17th, 2007, 02:41 PM #4I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it. --J.S. Mill
August 17th, 2007, 03:39 PM #5
This is one area many of us can agree on. It is moving towards a totalitarian regime, where state-issued ID's are no longer valid for "Federalized Air Travel" because they turned down the fed real ID program(Good for them!). But what's up with national park usage? The Washington Mall now off-limits to tourism?
This is why I feel this next election is CRUCIAL as the tipping point to where we go as a nation. It's going to set the stage for decades. Worse-case would be Civil War II when people finally say enough is enough of Civil Rights erosion.
Last edited by Toadman; August 17th, 2007 at 03:44 PM.
August 18th, 2007, 06:21 PM #6
WEll, with the rate they are able to process the new passport applications, if you want to travel as soon as next year, you better drive.
BTW, vote for who?"Sometimes life is just what we make it."
August 20th, 2007, 02:46 PM #7
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I certainly hope this won't happen!
Then again, considering I will soon have two passports that have RFID chips in them, why not have to show a passport for domestic flights?
August 20th, 2007, 03:37 PM #8
Well, for one thing, a passport is expensive. If you're an adult, the first time you get one the fees will be $97. You'll have to provide acceptable photos, which will probably also cost you. And you'll need documentation of your US citizenship, which may involve your getting copies of your birth certificate, naturalization certificate or other stuff; that may also cost you something if you can't lay your hands on them now. And remember that you'll have to renew your passport in ten years.
Second, you'll have to wait quite a bit. In normal times, a passport would take six to eight weeks to process, but the new requirement that you have to have one when returning from Canada or Mexico has put a huge strain on the system, and in many cases a wait of three or four months is not unusual. If this becomes a requirement for internal travel, the increased demand will overload the system even more. So if you think this will become official policy, apply as far in advance of any expected air travel as possible. You can pay an extra fee to expedite processing. That'll add another $60, and there are no guarantees it'll get you your passport in time.
You know, there a lot of Americans who have never traveled internationally and so have never acquired a passport. For them, paying an extra hundred bucks per family member is a significant tax, especially when it's hard to see why it's necessary. Think how efficient the poll tax was at keeping the poor from voting. Think how many have to borrow at usurious rates just to make it to payday.I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it. --J.S. Mill
August 20th, 2007, 09:15 PM #9
The truly stupid part is that any ID can be faked. This whole program is built on the premise that the bad guys will legally apply for a driver's license.
So the bad guys will have fake IDs and the rest of us will get tracking devices. Don't you feel safer?You can't fix stupidity.
August 20th, 2007, 09:35 PM #10
Bruce Schneier's take on it.
This sounds tough, but it's a lot of bluster. The states that have passed anti-REAL-ID legislation lean both Republican and Democrat. The federal government just can't say that citizens of -- for example -- Georgia (which passed a bill in May authorizing the Governor to delay implementation of REAL ID) can't walk into a federal courthouse without a passport. Or can't board an airplane without a passport -- imagine the lobbying by Delta Airlines here. They just can't.You can't fix stupidity.
August 20th, 2007, 09:54 PM #11
Where are the militias when you need 'em?
August 21st, 2007, 04:13 PM #12
August 22nd, 2007, 03:10 PM #13
If you're in a real hurry for your passport, call your Congressman:The most revealing tale comes from Ashley McDowell, a law student who applied for a passport in March, three months before her departure for a summer internship in South Africa. With three weeks to go, she checked the Passport Office website and found no record of her application. Her account perfectly captures the random absurdity of bureaucratic behavior:The first person I spoke with said that he would put an "expedite note" on my application. Days passed. The second gentleman I talked to said that my passport was in the background check phase, and would be done pretty soon. More days passed. And the third time I got through I got some really bizarre news. The man said that my passport was nowhere to be found. Nothing--not my name, SSN, or birth date--brought up any kind of status for any kind of passport relating to me. The man told me to call back in an hour. I did (and amazingly reached someone!) but I was still nowhere to be found. My passport was in some sort of Consular Neverland and no one could find it. The agent told me to go back to my post office where I'd applied and request the tracking number.Ashley McDowell didn't call Sen. Graham, but she did call House Minority Whip Jim Clyburn. The Passport Office sent her passport by Federal Express a few days later.
The next morning I drove into Aiken and spoke with a nice lady who said there was no such thing as a tracking number and that they kept no numbers attached to applications. She could tell that I was frustrated, distraught, and really confused. I guess she took pity on me, because she then leaned over the counter and whispered, "Now don't tell anyone I said this....but call Lindsey Graham."
There's nothing wrong with members of Congress responding to requests to cut through red tape. But something is rotten in Washington when the federal agency responsible for the red tape is the one asking.
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