Mexico's Oiling Days are Numbered - Page 2 - Tech Support Forums

Gomer · May 18th, 2008, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster

Now there an interesting scenario. When everybody starts driving electric cars, they will have to be charged up. That will place an even higher strain on an already highly strained electrical power grid. Will this then lead to much higher prices and the increasing occurrences of brown outs and shortages?

I already covered this... I'll dig it up.

But long story short... the strain placed on the grid will be off-peak strain as the majority of cars will be charged during off peak hours. This might actually have the effect of lowering prices as the electric company is better able to utilize all of the infrastructure that must be in place to accommodate peak hours, but runs at minimum capacity during off peak hours.

Gomer · May 18th, 2008, 01:54 AM

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Originally Posted by Gomer

Quote:

Originally Posted by zen

Are we going to build more nuclear power stations when the demand for electricity quadruples?

Electricity use is diurnal. It is much greater during the day than it is the night. The difference in demand between peak and off-peak is so great, electrical companies sell off-peak electricity at a greatly reduced rate in order to balance the load and maintain their generation efficiencies. It is a win win for both the utility and the user without a net increase in capacity required.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gomer

I don't know if enough to say definitively to say that it wouldn't... but I doubt it. The RAV4 I mentioned... had a built in timer that didn't start it charging to 2AM. I think that peak AC use pales in comparison to the off-peak when all commercial businesses are closed, most residential electronic equipment/lights/home appliances (e.g. washer and drier) lights etc. are turned off, AC/HEAT are all turned down or off for the night, etc. etc.

Even if you have to pay peak rates, you are still over 100 MPG.

The RAV4 EV was nowhere near as tricked out as a Prius is from an aero standpoint. Knock the coeffecient of drag down on that vehicle and cost equiv MPG shoots over 250 MPG easy.

You guys are trying waaaaaay to hard to try to find reasons this won't work. Every house, 2 cars?????

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Originally Posted by Gomer

Lo' and behold... the facts agree!

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A new study for the US Department of Energy finds that off-peak electricity production and transmission capacity could power 84% of the country’s 220 million vehicles if they were plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs).
Researchers at DOE’s Pacific Northwest National Laboratory also evaluated the impact of PHEVs on foreign oil imports, the environment, electric utilities and the consumer.

This is the first review of what the impacts would be of very high market penetrations of PHEVs. It’s important to have this baseline knowledge as consumers are looking for more efficient vehicles, automakers are evaluating the market for PHEVs and battery manufacturers are working to improve battery life and performance.

—Eric Lightner, DOE’s Office of Electric Delivery and Energy Reliability

Current batteries for PHEVs could store the energy for driving the national average commute—about 33 miles round trip a day—so the study presumes that drivers would charge up overnight when demand for electricity is much lower.
Researchers found that in the Midwest and East, there is sufficient off-peak generation, transmission and distribution capacity to provide for all of today’s vehicles if they ran on batteries.
However, in the West, and specifically the Pacific Northwest, there is limited extra electricity because of the large amount of hydroelectric generation that is already heavily utilized, and increasing electricity from hydroelectric plants is difficult.

We were very conservative in looking at the idle capacity of power generation assets. The estimates didn’t include hydro, renewables or nuclear plants. It also didn’t include plants designed to meet peak demand because they don’t operate continuously. We still found that across the country 84 percent of the additional electricity demand created by PHEVs could be met by idle generation capacity.

—Michael Kintner-Meyer, PNNL

PNNL: Newsroom - Mileage from megawatts: Study finds enough electric capacity to “fill up” plug-in vehicles across much of the nation

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Originally Posted by Gomer

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Bingo

It's a complicated situation, especially since nothing has been developed because gas has been so cheap and easy to obtain for so long.

Every alternative has upsides and downsides.

Electric cars

no pollution
quiet
highly efficient
powerful
no infrastructure in place
heavy, expensive, and toxic batteries
puts a strain on the power companies

The same can pretty much be said for any other alternative...but people need to come to the conclusion that:

Oil is finite
Our country will be better off the sooner we stop relying on enemy countries to supply our economy

Once people realize these things, I think we can start working towards a common goal and finding the best soluton.

No infrastructure in place? Does your house not have electricity? That is the beauty of electric cars... All of the infrastructure exists. You want to see an infrastructure fiasco, look at hydrogen. There's an infrastructure fiasco. It takes electricity to generate that hydrogen you need too transport everywhere to boot!

Strain on the power companies? I've shown the how much excess capacity they have. Utilizing that off-peak capacity would have the effect of reducing peak power prices because of the fact that the infrastructure required for peak capacity generation and transmission would be subsidized by off-peak sales.

Gomer · May 18th, 2008, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gomer

This statement:

Quote:

Originally Posted by zen

Are we going to build more nuclear power stations when the demand for electricity quadruples?

Is both a lack of thinking things through and being antagonistic.
You guys are trying waaaaaay to hard to try to find reasons this won't work instead of working towards a solution.

DC4man · May 18th, 2008, 03:05 AM

I just love how much good news people discuss these days.

pickel · May 18th, 2008, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #43 fan

What happens when Uranium begins to run out?
Not to mention Uranium prices will rise with increased demand.

If we started selling drugs to ALL the American consumers ( of drugs), we'd shut down Mexico , have more money to create alternative energy and with all those junkies and potheads stoned all the time create less demand for gas and oil products except for muncies and beer.

voogru · May 18th, 2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pickel

If we started selling drugs to ALL the American consumers ( of drugs), we'd shut down Mexico , have more money to create alternative energy and with all those junkies and potheads stoned all the time create less demand for gas and oil products except for muncies and beer.

I wonder, what happens if a democrat wins the whitehouse, and fuel prices... skyrocket even more?

Still bush's fault? right?

DoubleK · May 18th, 2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voogru

Where does that Electricity come from?

OH NOES NUCLEAR POWER OMG OMG EVIL EVIL

Instead of paying tons of money for gas, you get to pay tons of money for electricity.

That's why we don't have electric cars.

Bull Dookey. I used to think the same until I researched the new car that either Rich or Rob talked about here. The car in question is the Tesla Roadster viewable @ Jay Leno's garage.

Most notably:

- The Tesla roadster does 0 to 60 in 3.6 seconds

- The Tesla roadster has a power band of around 15,000 rpm at ALL times

- The Tesla roadster has a range of 225 miles

- The observed cost of electricity in the state of Caliornia, which btw has some of nations highest electric rates was around $10.00

With this being said, infrastructure would still have to be developed as everyone switching to an electric vehicle would sky rocket the cost of a kilowatt overnight. Possibly the government could take those billions of subsidies given to the oil companies making insane profit margins now and put that money to better use.

Chuckiechan · May 18th, 2008, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Bull Dookey. I used to think the same until I researched the new car that either Rich or Rob talked about here. The car in question is the Tesla Roadster viewable @ Jay Leno's garage.

Most notably:

- The Tesla roadster does 0 to 60 in 3.6 seconds

- The Tesla roadster has a power band of around 15,000 rpm at ALL times

- The Tesla roadster has a range of 225 miles

Sounds interesting... How much does it cost?

DoubleK · May 18th, 2008, 01:14 PM

Wow, I read the rest of the responses and see the point now about off peak energy usage. Good points. Flawed I feel. It is only logical to assume that demand will grow quickly to the point where people will want to have their vehicles charging while they are at work or at play to expand the feasibility and practicality of an all electric vehicle.

The Government needs to spend big money, OUR MONEY, on solar development if they truly want to help us consumers and our environment. Currently solar cannot be the only energy source but with todays technology it can produce enough energy to make a SIGNIFICANT impact in lowering the demand for other energy sources while being the greenest solution available today.

The solution to our Worlds energy crisis resides with that big fireball in the sky which by modest estimates has another 5 to 6 billion years left.

DoubleK · May 18th, 2008, 01:19 PM

Question:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckiechan

Sounds interesting... How much does it cost?

Answer:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleK

With this being said, infrastructure would still have to be developed as everyone switching to an electric vehicle would sky rocket the cost of a kilowatt overnight. Possibly the government could take those billions of subsidies given to the oil companies making insane profit margins now and put that money to better use.

Instead of being cute pose a more suitable question like how long before electric becomes feasible for the masses. Any ones guess but the government injecting the cash it gives to oil would probably be better spent elsewhere now. Yes? No?