David Barton getting slammed from both sides now

[Beemer]

This fraudster of biblical proportion is getting his due now from evangelical Christian historians.

The Danger of David Barton

In light of some of the recent discussions on religion that this blog has witnessed, I thought you might all engage in a good debate over this topic.

Over the past few years, I have maintained a serious problem with the "history" of David Barton. Barton's blatant bias, combined with his lack of historical integrity shocks me. Don't get me wrong, I believe that there are some GREAT historians out there who embrace evangelical teachings, but Barton's agenda is so transparent that I cannot see how people take him seriously. I realize that my saying this might be construed as insensitive or insulting. By no means am I trying to be this way. In fact, I think it is important for you all to know that I embrace evangelical teachings myself. With that said, however, I cannot believe a word that comes out of David Barton's mouth, when he talks about history. Where is his training? Certainly it is not in history.

Read More and don't miss out on the comments.

David Barton is on the Advisory Board for the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools. This organisation has been promoting Barton’s lies as well as using his materials in their promoted and distorted Bible curriculum used in some witting and unwitting public schools. This could be the hammering of the nail in the coffin for the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools considering Barton’s falsehoods are so entrenched in their unconstitutional curriculum. David Barton’s Wallbuilders better be good at wall building because what they’ve built so far is crumbling.

I wonder if the 84 Republican's endorsing Resolution 888 will now take another look at the erroneous "Where as's" in support of that bill in light of Barton being outed as a non credentialed historian/fraud by evangelical Christian scholars/historians with real credentials and a duty to the truth? (It's more than likely Barton wrote the revisionist where as's for Frobes.) Or maybe the truth isn't important to them? It's also interesting that the 5(?) Democrat’s that were on the list have now pulled their vote. A show of integrity?

I guess the Dem's heard or figured out that this resolution is nothing more than a foot in the door to get religion into the public schools as revealed by Barton to Forbes on public radio.

You can read the transcript at Congressman Randy Forbes -- David Barton's "Hero" by Chris Rodda.

Just connecting the dots on a sunny afternoon off.

[Mrs. Walley]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Who are you from Canada to take a stand on where our money goes and what goes into our education? The last time I checked, I am an American Citizen who home schools. You want seperation of church and state and religion and education. Fine, I and the other 100,000 or so homeschoolers in AMERICA want our school tax money back for today, tomorrow and all the yesterdays we paid in. Then, I am sure there are the Private school families who'll want their money too. Don't play with fire, you will get burned. How long do you think Americans will continue to pay into a system that says, give us your money and in return we will do what we want, when we want, to whom we want and will not be accountable to anyone, no matter how many of thousands of dollars they pay into the system.

I have a few words for you, either go back to Canada or at least while you are here, act like a visitor and keep your mouth shut and your nose out of our business. All said with the Love of Christ of course. We are Christians not idiots, not rugs to wipe your feet on and not napkins for table scraps!!!!

Another thing, Do NOT ever tell me what I do and do not want. I happen to want prayer in school. I happen to be very fond of the idea of a Christian Heritage History Program for school. I'd even like writing and literature to be based on Christian Litereature. And yes, oh yes, I'd like to see Chrisitan Character taught in the public schools. Do not go around flapping your jaws telling others what I want ~ You have no clue.

[Chuckiechan]

How long do you think Americans will continue to pay into a system that says, give us your money and in return we will do what we want, when we want, to whom we want and will not be accountable to anyone, no matter how many of thousands of dollars they pay into the system.

One of the biggest "special interests" is the teacher's unions. Their goal is to stifle any and all free choice of parents to educate their children in schools that teach something other than liberal crap.

I'd prefer a school that has classes in ethics and morality to one that has classes in "Birth Control: Alternative Sexual Practices for Children"...

I know several parents who home school and pay for private school, and all they ask is for their school taxes back.

[Beemer]

To bad about the First Amendment "eh"?

All your arguments are quite mute considering when we have an election or an important issue up here your religious leaders think they should get involved. They send money and advice to the Christian associations up here. When your religion starts recognising borders and stops influence peddling in Canada I'll back off. (Like that will happen soon. ) What you're demanding for is an elite religious status. The constitution is quite clear on where you can file that.

As for school, the government provides for public education. If you want something other than the default, pay for it out of your own pockets. If you want something as lame as the National Council on Bible Curriculum taught, or science from a biblical perspective, don't hope for the kids to go on to accredited higher education. They won't meet the standard prerequisite of knowledge to gain entry. That is what Barton and his ilk offers your kids.

Where your educational proposals will take you.
Skip on down to page 12, line 10 and start reading paying attention to the words, “lack of critical thinking”.

ASSOCIATION OF CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS INTERNATIONAL vs. ROMAN STEARNS

What you're demanding is a limited education which offers limited opportunities which further limits the pool of properly educated persons entering the work force.

What you are proposing is to make a mockery of the Christian faith and of common knowledge.

What you propose is unconstitutional and lays the ground work for the dumbing-down of the American populace.

What you are proposing is the destruction of the American economy and competition in the global market place.

What you’re proposing is a Christian Nation where one never existed.

Now go back to onenewsnow and have them lie to you some more.

[Pexster]

Mrs. Walley calls herself a "Christian." Jesus, lady, have you read the New Testament lately? You sound like a pretty sorry excuse for a Christian.

[mad1]

Beemer;2697964]

As for school, the government provides for public education. If you want something other than the default, pay for it out of your own pockets. If you want something as lame as the National Council on Bible Curriculum taught, or science from a biblical perspective, don't hope for the kids to go on to accredited higher education. They won't meet the standard prerequisite of knowledge to gain entry. That is what Barton and his ilk offers your kids.

You are correct they provide something, but it is not education. The public school system is failing the children, look at the situation in Chicago at the moment. Look at the public school system in all the other major cities in the us, failing again. These systems are plagued with poor finance and poor teacher quality.

What you're demanding is a limited education which offers limited opportunities which further limits the pool of properly educated persons entering the work force.

Limited education is the blinders placed on the children in the public school system. Here is your school and here is what you are learning today, don't like it you fail.

What you propose is unconstitutional and lays the ground work for the dumbing-down of the American populace.

We can already thank some of our college professors for that, like Ward Churchill.

What you’re proposing is a Christian Nation where one never existed.

THe US has always been a christian nation, not sure what you are referring to?

[Beemer]

Mad1
I think your argument that the schools are failing the kids is not taking into consideration what the kids are going through after and before school. Poverty and bad parenting to mention only a couple of influences.

I'm thinking that the parents are sending kids to school unprepared to learn. Latchkey kids being the primary problem.

The link I provided in my last post is the end of the court case, Calvary Chapel (ASSOCIATION OF CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS INTERNATIONAL) vs. University of California (Berkly) which I've mentioned a few times before. A Beka and Bob Jones University texts being the fly in the ointment. Any kids being taught from these books as primary texts are in for a big surprise if they intend to go on to an accredited university in pursuit of a career at the end. They may find, as in the case I mention above, their parents were asleep at the switch in thinking a Christian education from a biblical viewpoint is infallible. The kids now of university age find their parents have wasted precious years of their education in favour of religious idealism. The parents have not shown critical thinking in placing their children in Christian schools that stray from accepted academic knowledge.

Save the embryo but cripple the developing child’s mind.

[Atomic Rooster]

Had to do Google to find out who this "David Barton" character is that has beemer's panties in a twist. Good to see that beemer is out connecting the dots to help protect us Americans from them nasty evangelical Christian types.

Originally Posted by Beemer

Mad1
I think your argument that the schools are failing the kids is not taking into consideration what the kids are going through after and before school. Poverty and bad parenting to mention only a couple of influences.

I'm thinking that the parents are sending kids to school unprepared to learn. Latchkey kids being the primary problem.

That's a broad generalization you're making there don't you think? The problem isn't at home, it's with the failing school systems and it's underpaid teachers. . .

[Beemer]

Originally Posted by Mad1

You are correct they provide something, but it is not education. The public school system is failing the children, look at the situation in Chicago at the moment. Look at the public school system in all the other major cities in the us, failing again. These systems are plagued with poor finance and poor teacher quality.

And vouchers are going to improve finances of the Christian institutions of course. That's what vouchers is all about. Look into the politics on vouchers to find out more.

The poor teacher quality is in some cases valid. On the other hand I've tried training/teaching people in carpentry, drilling and blasting, computers. Am I to waste my time on those that don't wish to learn? If whom you're teaching is looking the other way when you are instructing, this shows a lack of interest. I just fired a friend of mine for doing just that.

A teacher is stuck with bad students. I'm not.

Isn't it funny that the teaching methods used up to grade 5 or 6 are the same used in later grades but up to grade 5 or 6 the public school system shines throughout the globe. What happens after grade 5 or 6 that achievement scores start to drop? I'm thinking it's a change in priority of the individual. I'm thinking the realisation of class distinction sets in. The have and “have nots” become distinguishable. The “have nots” start realising they have a hope in hell of achieving what the "haves" will be able to achieve. The "haves" have parents that can afford their higher education costs. The "haves" don't push their children to get jobs as soon as their mandatory school years have finished. They can survive the extra time needed to have their children further their mandatory education into college or university.

There are numerous reasons for the public school system to show failure and until you really want to delve into the social aspects that is also influencing the failure of producing educated kids you won’t have any other idea of what’s going on.

If you think corrupting what is being taught or ridding society of the public school education is the solution, you haven't given the problem very much thought. I'm thinking someone else’s religious ideological agenda is at play and you have fallen hook line and sinker.

Can you tell me why wealthier areas aren't having a problem educating their kids to a higher academic standard than poorer areas? Inner city schools being the worst? Wealthier areas use the same teaching methods as the poorer areas. Is it the teaching methods or is it something else?

We have to work on the mind set of the student. School is training for the future. It's isn't just something to think of as being mandated by the government.

Ward Churchill? I think we were all in agreement he got what he deserved back then. Most of the academic world wondered how he even got tenure. He was rooted out fast. That's is what is supposed to happen when a teacher starts straying from the facts.

[tony_j15]

When your religion starts recognising borders and stops influence peddling in Canada I'll back off.

Are you suggesting Christianity is merely an American institution, or just her particular flavor of the kool-aid?