July 16th, 2008, 12:30 PM
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#1 (permalink)
| | B( . )( . )BS
Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: PA, USA
Posts: 15,981
| What you need to know about BHO
__________________ Send lawyers, guns and money; the shit has hit the fan. |
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July 16th, 2008, 12:51 PM
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#2 (permalink)
| | Fact Checker
Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: MSU- E. Lansing, MI
Posts: 4,462
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This is my response to a video I was e-mailed with many ridiculous accusations and false information about Obama. The people who were included on this e-mail were more traditional, right-leaning Christians and have probably always voted Republican. However, I felt it important to combat the lies that are out there. I was pleasantly surprised by some of the responses I received—some even thanking me for helping them sort through the lies and stating that now they are considering a vote for Obama! I’m posting this in case anyone else runs across this same video and would like some information on the accusations involved.
I just got this message and watched the video. I would like a chance to respond to it. As some of you may know, I have been a supporter of Obama for a long time. And while I know most of you are not, and probably wouldn't consider him just by virtue of the fact that he is a democrat, I do think it fair that the truth be told. If you disagree with his policies, voting record and what he stands for then you should vote for another candidate. However, if it is because of videos and e-mails that are circulating the internet like this one, then I think you should reconsider. Every accusation in this video is either completely fabricated or twisted beyond any resemblance of the original fact. I have taken the time to research these myself because I feel it's very important to know what a candidate believes, stands for and what his or her background is before committing to them. So, let me share with you what my research has shown. First however, I want to say that I don't mean this as an attack on anyone who has sent this-- I know when you hear things like this video your first thought is fear, and you want to do what's best to protect your country. I believe that most of the people who send these do so not realizing that the information in them is false, but that doesn't make the damage done any less real. If you've passed this video along, and my arguments convince you that the statements in it are false, please consider sending along another e-mail to let people know the dishonesty of the video. You can even send along my comments if you'd like. Blessings!
So, here are my responses:
Accusation # 1: Because of his name, Obama is a Muslim. First of all, let me share with you a fact that I know personally from living in the Middle East. There are many Christians (both here and abroad) who have Muslim names. They keep their names that have Muslim heritage for a variety of reasons including safety, security, family connections and the possibility of reconciling their friends and family to God. It is interesting to me that Obama can be accused of being a Muslim and yet also face criticism for attending a Christian church for over 20 years and having a Christian mentor. He cannot be both. In most Muslim circles they teach that is more dangerous for a Muslim to enter a Christian church than a Jewish synagogue, Budhist temple or any other religious place. If you are a Muslim it is forbidden for you to even enter a church service.
Accusation # 2: Obama's father is a Muslim. Obama's father was born Muslim. However, he abandoned his religion and became an atheist by the time he became an adult. Furthermore, he abandoned his wife and son when Obama was only 2 years old.
Accusation # 3: Obama attended a Muslim school for two years. While living in Indonesia, Obama attended a school which would be considered Muslim primarily because the majority of students who attended were Muslim. Indonesia is primarily a Muslim country. There is no such thing as secular schools in Muslim coutries--public schools and private schools all have a few hours a week of religious instruction. Even if the school is Christian it is usually required by the government to offer classes in Islam in addition to their classes and chapels in the Christian faith. Obama also attended private Catholic schools while in Indonesia.
Accusation # 4: Obama's voting record is vague because he voted present on many occasions. In the Illinois State Senate many times groups would ask the senators to only vote present instead of yes or no on an issue. As an example, if there were a bill about a particular issue that they wanted to fail and needed the support of both Democrats and Republicans so that it wouldn't get through the house an activist group might ask the senators to vote present so that others would feel comfortable also voting that way. Thus the bill wouldn't pass and they wouldn't have a negative vote on their record. Usually these votes were prompted by outside groups to help push through better legislation later. Although I'm not sure this is the best way for our state governments to operate, the reality is that this is a political tool and it is not a non-vote, but a vote in opposition that hopes to pass better legislation.
Accusation # 5: There is a comunist flag hanging in Obama's campaign office. The flag that is displayed is actually in an independently funded volunteer office. What that means is that it's actually not a part of Obama's campaign--it is a separate group hoping to see him elected. Obama's campaign does not control that office. After seeing the flag, Obama issued a statement saying he was sad to see the flag there and that he did not agree with the symolism it carried. Despite some pressure to remove the flag, that independent office has not done so.
Accusation # 6: Obama refuses to wear a flag pin. I happen to think this controversy is rather petty. Do we really think that someone's accessories or jewelry represents what they stand for? At any rate, here's a picture of Obama wearing a flag pin. My opinion is that he probably didn’t start out this campaign saying “I refuse to wear a pin”, but rather didn't see it as the sort of litmus test for American patriotism that some people did.
Accusation # 7: Obama refuses to place his hand over his heart. Again, this is a rather shallow test of American pride. I don't place my hand over my heart when singing the anthem--for me it is because I feel that it is showing a kind of respect and allegience that I only want to reserve for God. For Obama, he has stated many times that he was taught growing up that the proper way to show respect for America was to place your hand on your heart during the pledge and not while singing. Think about any basketball games you've gone to recently-- as a former cheerleader I can tell you that we were trained to stand in a certain way as a sign of respect during the song as it was sang or played before each game, as were the basketball players--but that stance did not involve placing our hands on our heart.
Accusation # 8: Obama atteded church with Rev. Wright for over 20 years, and thus is incapable of leading fairly. Again, despite the controversy of Rev. Wright, I wonder how someone can at the same time be attacked for being a Muslim and for being a devoted enough Christian to regularly go to church services in the same congregation for 20 years. (More on this in Accusation # 10.)
Accusation # 9: Obama's wife is unpatriotic because she is proud of America for the first time in her life because of Obama's success. I believe these comments were taken out of context. Not to mention that if you listen closely she doesn't say "the first time in my life" but "the first time in my adult life I am REALLY proud." But I will say this; since I have become an adult I often find it difficult to be proud of many of our countries choices and actions in the world. There are many great things about America. (I miss many of them living abroad!) And there are many great people in America (whether working as teachers, garbage cleaners, military or even politicians). But often times we fail to live up to our potential as a country. It's not that I hate our country or am unpatriotic; it's that I believe in our potential to be so much more than what we are now. Whether that is in providing health care to young children, dealing with the problems of drug and alcohol addiction, caring for the homeless, providing the best resources so our teachers can teach the children in our public schools, or making foreign policy--I believe we can do better. I'm not proud of our failings. But that doesn't mean I don't care about our country or believe in its potential to be something incredible. And it doesn’t make me unpatriotic, rather it makes me fight harder for what we can be.
Accusation # 10: Obama is to be mistrusted because he won't disown his mentor, Rev. Wright, as a person, but only repudiates his comments. First of all, let me say I do not agree with Rev. Wright's beliefs or comments regarding reverse racism and HIV. They are saddening to me as a fellow pastor and a Christian. However, I think if we are honest with ourselves we all know people who we disagree with strongly on certain issues but we still love and we don't disown them. As Christians we know there is a broad range of beliefs and theologies. We are not called to hate others or disown them, but to love them and to hopefully reconcile them to right belief and theology when they preach things that are different from what God intends. As an example, my grandmother has been my spiritual strength and a mentor for all my life. I am quite sure she prayed me into God's forgiveness and the ministry. She is the strongest prayer warrior I know. She is the hardest worker, most compassionate, giving, self-less, loving person I know. She is a hero to me. And yet, my grandmother grew up in a time and place where she was taught many things about African Americans that are wrong. She struggles with a prejudice that is not what God has in mind for her or us. But do I disown her because she has made a few inappropriate, wrong and saddening remarks? No. I love her. And over the years I deal with those prejudices in love. And over time, she has begun to change and to see people of all colors in a new light. Is she perfect? No. But those changes would never have happened in her if I and others in her faith community had simply disowned her. Is there such a hope for Rev. Wright? I believe so. I believe that is what the good news of the Gospel is all about--that there is no one beyond the hope of God's redemption and reconciliation.
Accusation # 11: Liberation Theology and Black Liberation Theology are aspects of Communism and Nazism. I won't spend a lot of time on this one, but as a student of theology let me make two points. First of all, there are many aspects of liberation theology and Rev. Wright’s version of liberation theology is by no means the orthodox version of it. Second, there are many positive and sound aspects of liberation theology that you will find throughout the church--whether that church is Roman Catholic, Evangelical, Baptist, Lutheran, Reformed or Nazarene. The view this video shows of Liberation Theology is greatly distorted.
Accusation # 12: Obama believes it doesn't matter what Rev. Wright said because they're "just words." This is a ridiculous distortion of his catch phrase in the speech shown at the beginning of the video. If you listen carefully he is saying that people who say things are "just words" and therefore don't matter are mistaken. He is giving examples of words which carried great power.
Accusation # 13: Obama doesn't support Israel because of Rev. Wright's beliefs. Actually, Obama recently gave an incredibly pro-Israeli speech a few weeks ago. Let me tell you as someone living in the Middle East, it was highly controversial over here because it very strongly supported Israel. And for all those comments about him being a Muslim, many Muslims over here were greatly offended and articles appeared across the Arab press saying that Obama was just as bad as the Republicans when it came to supporting Israel and not caring for the plight of the Arab people. Whether you think that is a good or bad thing, the reality is the Muslim world does not see him as their hero.
Accusation # 14: Obama has agreed to sit face to face to have meetings with leaders of countries that we so far have not been willing to talk with. This one is actually true. (Although Obama has clarified what he means by that.) However, I for one hope he will meet with those leaders. If you're an early childhood teacher (or even secondary ed) you know the first thing we try to teach kids in conflict resolution is to use their words. “Don't hit Bobby, talk it out.” The same should be true with our foreign policy. Do we really think we are punishing other countries by saying we won't sit down and talk with their leaders? Believe me, as someone who lives in the part of the world that most of this controversy revolves around, they're not talking it as a punishment. Shouldn't we try to talk through our conflicts first rather than as a last resort? At least, we should be willing to admit that we've tried not talking for many years (and I'm not just talking about one specific president or administration) and it hasn't worked. You know the old saying--if you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got. Anyway, for those of you who have made it to the end of this, thanks for listening. As a Christian I think we should seek to make sure that the political conversations we have are based on honesty and truth. I think we should make decisions based on policies, beliefs and character, not on lies that circulate the internet.
---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Frightening is one word... but I think "terror" is a better one - and (at the sake of starting a political outrage with those of you who don't have my same view... ) I want to vote Democrat this election (sorry all you pro-Repubs... I just feel we need a change, but after this video... I'm back on the fence)!! But with Obama now being the only choice, and learning what I'm learning more and more about him... it gets more and more doubtful that I will... this truly is unsettling. Can anyone explain away the fears this video clip instills??? Could I be missing something? or letting the out-of-context syndrome get to me??? This election year's choices are even worse than last's! P.S. Just FYI... I passed this on because it scared me enough to feel everyone needs to know... however, that said - I don't discuss religion or politics as a general rule... K? ;~
this is in his own words
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July 16th, 2008, 01:37 PM
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#3 (permalink)
| | American Badass
Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Bismarck,ND
Posts: 21,051
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Yet another copy and paste from our local Socialist.... oops, I mean democrat.
Good link Binder..
__________________ The majority can never replace the man - Adolf Hitler |
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July 16th, 2008, 01:40 PM
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#4 (permalink)
| | Ultimate Member
Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 1,607
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__________________
--== This Space For Rent ==--
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July 16th, 2008, 02:02 PM
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#5 (permalink)
| | B( . )( . )BS
Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: PA, USA
Posts: 15,981
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By the way - thanks for the opinion/editorial, Gomer. Real useful when trying to be factual. |
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July 16th, 2008, 02:04 PM
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#6 (permalink)
| | Member
Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 278
| Quote:
Originally Posted by jokostel Yet another copy and paste from our local Socialist.... oops, I mean democrat.
Good link Binder.. | Well if he and all democrats on the left are socialists then I guess all the republicans on the right would be the opposite - fascists.
Hmmm - which one is worse?
/al |
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July 16th, 2008, 02:05 PM
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#7 (permalink)
| | B( . )( . )BS
Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: PA, USA
Posts: 15,981
| Quote:
Originally Posted by aldtech Well if he and all democrats on the left are socialists then I guess all the republicans on the right would be the opposite - fascists.
Hmmm - which one is worse?
/al | Washington Republicans are the new Democrats; Washington Democrats are the new Communists. The rest of the country, whose voice goes unheard - the silent majority - are conservative people pissed off at both parties. |
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July 16th, 2008, 02:10 PM
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#8 (permalink)
| | American Badass
Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Bismarck,ND
Posts: 21,051
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July 16th, 2008, 02:14 PM
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#9 (permalink)
| | Member
Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 278
| Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Bingo Republicans are the new Democrats; Democrats are the new Communists. | I don't know if I would be saying that out loud if I where you. While democrats have always been painted as socialists/communists, no news there, the republicans on the other hand, are suppose to be conservatives. Now you are advocating that they really are liberals instead.
I myself can see that with their (repugnicans) cut the taxes and spend mentality (liberal) but ouch, saying it out loud.
Nice Ass.
/al |
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July 16th, 2008, 02:16 PM
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#10 (permalink)
| | Member
Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 278
| Quote:
Originally Posted by jokostel Got that right .. | Hey, I'm cool with that. Now are you saying that you are one of them?
/al |
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