Catholic bishops correct Pelosi on abortion

[Shipuuden]

Mortal danger is an effective antidote for fixed ideas.

[J.Pope]

Originally Posted by surreal

They don't make any sense!
"Abortion is murder and my ethics are offended at the though of it! But keep your fricking hands out of my pocket when it comes to paying for that unwanted kid that I worked so hard to make sure it was born so I could feel like I'm a moral christian.

You are comparing two different points of view. I have never said I agree with every thing that another person believes. I think abortion is murder. Toadman doesn't seem to care either way as long as you don't expect him to pitch in and help with the cost. Two different points of view.

[J.Pope]

Originally Posted by Steve R Jones

Yep...So lets kill (pardon the pun) several birds with one stone...All the Pro Lifers adopt a kid and get em out of the foster care system....

1. It'll help the kid out
2. It'll reduce the tax burden on all of us
3. You have another voter on your side

I actually am going to adopt a child as soon as it is born. My wife has a thirteen year old daughter who lives with her grand parents. She screwed around and ended up pregnant. When the child is born in January I am going to adopt it so C.P.S. doesn't take it away.

[mad1]

Gomer;2703434]

Again, that's horribly warped logic. You guys throw around words like "murder" when talking about abortion, but with fertility treatments, I hear no so thing. That's like saying it would be acceptable for me to murder a few dozen people in order for me to impregnate someone. That it would be justified.

You are making some presumptions about my views, what do you consider warped logic? If a living life is terminated that is murder, the 10 million dollar question is when does life start. If you take the Vatican's version it starts at the point of conception.

I am talking fertility treatments in general. Any treatment where more than one viable embryo/baby/child is conceived. Because murder is murder, regardless of how many people you kill... right? Many fertility treatments result in the creation of multiple embryos.

Not all fertility treatments create multiple embryo's. SET (single embryo transfer )

But with better techniques for growing and selecting the best quality embryos, fertility specialists have started offering some patients the option of avoiding the complications of multiple births by betting on a single embryo.

Betting on single embryo in vitro not a bad gamble



Many embryos are created, the extra can be frozen.

The procedure involves combining egg and sperm in a lab dish to create embryos, which can then be transferred to a woman's uterus. Any extra viable embryos can be frozen for later use.

The eggs that have fertilized will be allowed to develop for two or more additional days under controlled laboratory conditions before they are placed inside the woman's uterus. Depending upon the couple's wishes, some fertilized eggs/ embryos may be frozen and stored for future use.

http://www.ivf.com/overview.html

[Gomer]

Originally Posted by mad1

Gomer;2703434]

You are making some presumptions about my views, what do you consider warped logic? If a living life is terminated that is murder, the 10 million dollar question is when does life start. If you take the Vatican's version it starts at the point of conception.

They are not presumptions. You said it is ok to kill/murder some children (embryos) through fertility treatments because the purpose is to create life. That is warped logic.

When do you think life starts? 90% of abortions are performed before week 12. Do you think life has started by week 12? Week 1? Week 4? What is your opinion?

Are you against the morning after pill?

Not all fertility treatments create multiple embryo's. SET (single embryo transfer ) Betting on single embryo in vitro not a bad gamble

SET still creates multiple embryos. Just as in the scenario I previously outlined where the 12 brothers and sisters are murdered. The difference is, only one is put back in the woman. The others are destroyed/discarded/frozen/murdered. The one that is put in the woman has limited chance to implant in the uterus and go full term. The process has to be repeated several times for it to be successful. Lots of children are still murdered.

Many embryos are created, the extra can be frozen.

Frozen isn't murder? There are millions of embryos on ice that will be kept there indefinitely (or until they expire)... and millions that are discarded. Most people that undergo fertility treatments are only going to do so for the one or two kids that it takes to make a family. They are not going to go through the physical, emotional, and financial stresses that are involved with the fertility treatment process.

If, instead of terminating the pregnancy before week 12, they extracted it and drowned it in liquid nitrogen; would you find abortion to be an acceptable practice?

[mad1]

Gomer;2704165]

They are not presumptions. You said it is ok to kill/murder some children (embryos) through fertility treatments because the purpose is to create life. That is warped logic.

I never said it was ok to kill or murder a child, not sure where you arrived at that conclusion?

When do you think life starts? 90% of abortions are performed before week 12. Do you think life has started by week 12? Week 1? Week 4? What is your opinion?

How do you classify life, does life start at the time growth starts?

Are you against the morning after pill?

Not sure on this, what is your position?

The one that is put in the woman has limited chance to implant in the uterus and go full term.

The results showed that the probability of a live birth was not significantly different between the two groups, but with a higher rate of twins in the DET group.

Elective single embryo transfer versus double embr...[Reprod Biomed Online. 2008] - PubMed Result

The process has to be repeated several times for it to be successful.

The procedure can be repeated, if the first one does not work. This also applies to all other forms of fertilization.

Frozen isn't murder?

Never said it was?