Where is the "Free Market?"

[Pexster]

This is a perfect example of the point I have been trying to drive home to some (OK, one) of our younger members who seem to worship some phantom "free market."

The Agriculture Department is within bounds to bar meatpackers from testing slaughter cattle for mad cow disease, a U.S. Court of Appeals panel said in a 2-1 ruling on Friday.

Creekstone Farms Premium Beef LLC, a small Arkansas packer, filed suit on March 23, 2006, to gain access to mad-cow test kits. It said it wanted to test every animal at its plant to assure foreign buyers that the meat was safe to eat.

Three U.S. cases of mad cow disease, a fatal neurological infection, have been reported, the last in March 2006. People can contract a human version of the disease by eating infected meats. Most nations banned U.S. beef after the first case, in December 2003, but trade has been restored for the most part.

In a 25-page ruling, Appellate Judges Karen Henderson and Judith Rogers said USDA has authority under the 1913 Virus-Serum-Toxin Act to prevent sale of mad-cow test kits to meatpackers. USDA interprets the law to control products for "prevention, diagnosis, management or care of diseases of animals."

So here we have a smaller company, trying to distinguish itself in the fucking FREE MARKETPLACE (sorry, but this pisses me off so much I can't see straight) by testing all of its cows. But, NOOO!!! That might piss off some of the big boys in the fucking FREE MARKETPLACE (sorry, but this pisses me off so much I can't see straight) who don't want to do so. So what do the big boys do? They go to their friend, George W. Fucking Bush, and have him go to his guys in the USDA and stop them from performing the tests.

For the last time, guys (I mean Bingo), there is no FREE MARKET in this country!!!. If you stick your head up too high and become successful enough to threaten some important group with a lobbyist, they will cut you off at the knees. (All in the name of protecting the consumer, you understand?)

[/rant]

[Atomic Rooster]

Please show proof of how George Bush is personally involved in this matter.

[Pexster]

Have you never heard of "the buck stops here?" He runs the agency. He is responsible. Of course, I fully recognize that some people in this country still have their noses up his ass, even after almost eight years of mismanagement and malfeasance. I like the line "What does it say about his [McCain's] judgement that he agreed with George Bush 90% of the time?"

But that is not really the point. A federal agency is prohibiting a food producer from differentiating their food safety program from other producers. I guess since the Bush administration is for it, so are you.

[Atomic Rooster]

No, I'm for seeing proof that this has occurred because of President Bush's personal involvement. Not just some tirade by a disgruntled Bush hater.

From what you have posted it's not the agency that is denying the kits, it's the Appellate Judges Karen Henderson and Judith Rogers who ruled that they have the right not to. Your beef is with the wrong people. You energy would be better spent ranting about the judges than this lame attempt at using this issue as an example of a lack of a free market place.

[The Real Bingo]

So you make a profanity-laden thread to say how there is no free market, then give details on how the government prevents a market from being free?

Doesn't this just solidify my contention that government should be involved as little as possible in economic affairs and that a market should be as liberated as humanly possible?

By the way - I couldn't guess it was me who you were referring to before you mentioned my name.


FUCK.

I had to join in. I couldn't resist.

[Pexster]

I understand your philosophy, Bingo, but am just pointing out one example where there is no free market today. Many of your arguments are based on the premise that we have such a thing now, and that Democrats are taking actions to limit it. AR, nothing gets to an appeals court without some action preceding it. I forgot that you don't do any independent research, no matter how easy it might be. Maybe it's an arthritic mouse-clicking finger or something.

[Atomic Rooster]

So, just because a couple of appelate judges rule with the USDA in this case, a Free Market doesn't exist?

[Pexster]

It certainly doesn't in the food industry. There are countless examples of meat and dairy producers that have tried to distinguish their products in the marketplace by advertising their sources, production methods, and in this case, testing, only to be denied by governmental agencies. Usually it is under the guise of "protecting the consumer." From what? Too much information?

[Atomic Rooster]

Do you have any experience working in the food industry to back up your claims?

How do this ruling prevent Creekstone Farms Premium Beef LLC from freely selling and distributing their product?

[The Real Bingo]

Originally Posted by Pexster

I understand your philosophy, Bingo, but am just pointing out one example where there is no free market today. Many of your arguments are based on the premise that we have such a thing now, and that Democrats are taking actions to limit it.

The government has its hand in pretty much every type of business, whether it's regulating it, taxing it, or subsidizing it...therefore there is no truly free market. However, there is a philosophical difference between conservatives and liberals; the former wants to limit government in markets, and the latter wants to proliferate it. People are as free as laws will let them, yet we say we live in a free society. Industry is as free as laws will allow.

Note: conservative does not = Republican; liberal does not = Democrat. I know you'd probably switch my words around and say: "BUT THIS IS SOMETHING GWB DID!" He's a Republican, but I don't believe he's really a conservative.