Good Bye Detroit: The Final Nail in Big 3's Coffin

[outlaw2001it]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EXreaction

Oh you are so very clever, mixing the words democrat and crap, so it makes the democrats look bad. If only there was a larger number of smart people like you the world wouldn't have any problems at all!

The Dem's are the ones pushing this bill. What if GM/Chrysler go bankrupt anyway...we're out $14 Billion. This loan/bailout IMO isn't going to do anything for GM/Chrysler except prolong their death for a few more months or so.

[tony_j15]

Quote:

Personally, I'd like to give out 750,000 $20,000 vouchers to Americans that could be used towards a purchase of an American car that gets over 30 mpg. That will give business to the auto companies and also provide stimulus to the economy.

yeah, how about we don't do that and file it under "stupid ideas that come up during brain storming sessions that ultimately spark good ideas."

Oh, and how do you define "American"? the Toyota Camry is built from 85% US parts and assembled here as well. Meanwhile,

Quote:

a Ford Fusion? It is assembled in Mexico. The Chrysler 300C is assembled in Canada, but its transmission is from Indiana; the brand's V-8 engine is made in Mexico. Engines in the Chevrolet Equinox sport utility vehicle are from China.

[cunokyle]

Another shinning example of how Unions are ruining this country economically.

[Chuckiechan]

I guess the question is: chapter 11 with restructuring to make a viable company, or a bailout leading to another failure later.

I can't fault the unions. It's their job to get as much as they can from the company, but now we are talking about the taxpayers. They should back off and realize that taking a cut in pay is better than having no job at all, and no one is going to continue paying them "hammock money" when they are broke.

[EXreaction]

Quote:

Originally Posted by outlaw2001it

The Dem's are the ones pushing this bill. What if GM/Chrysler go bankrupt anyway...we're out $14 Billion. This loan/bailout IMO isn't going to do anything for GM/Chrysler except prolong their death for a few more months or so.

You clearly missed the point.

[Chuckiechan]

MTA, regarding you credit line, the banks are cutting risk, and cutting their "upside" exposure. If you and a million others decide to borrow that 100K they may be heading for problems again, if a fourth of them can't make payments.

They want you to fill out a new credit app before you borrow again, and they will want to reappraise your home again.

Can you blame them?

[brandon184]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckiechan

They should back off and realize that taking a cut in pay is better than having no job at all, and no one is going to continue paying them "hammock money" when they are broke.

I hear ya, sister.

[cunokyle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckiechan

.

I can't fault the unions. It's their job to get as much as they can from the company,

Wow...amazing how times have changed from when the Unions were here to ensure safe work conditions and FAIR pay.

[sharder8]

Got this in my e-mail tonight . . . quick Google search shows data found in several sites . . .

Quote:

According to Forbes:

Labor cost per hour, wages and benefits for hourly workers.
Ford: $70.51 ($141,020 per year)
GM: $73.26 ($146,520 per year)
Chrysler: $75.86 ($151,720 per year)
Toyota , Honda, Nissan (in U.S. ): $48.00 ($96,000 per year)

According to AAUP and IES, the average annual compensation for a college professor in 2006 was $92,973 (average salary nationally of $73,207 + 27% benefits).

Bottom Line: The average UAW worker with a high school degree earns 57.6% more compensation than the average university professor with a Ph.D., and 52.6% more than the average worker at Toyota, Honda or Nissan.

Many industry analysts say the Detroit Three, must be on par with Toyota and Honda to survive. This year's contract, they say, must be "transformational" in reducing pension and health care costs.

What would "transformational" mean? One way to think about "transformational" would mean that UAW workers, most with a high school diploma, would have to accept compensation equal to that of the average university professor with a PhD.

Then there's the "Job Bank"
When a D3 ( Detroit 3 carmaker) lays an employee off, that employee continues to receive all benefits - medical, retirement, etc., etc., PLUS an hourly wage of $31/hour.

Here's a typical job bank story....
Ken Pool is making good money. On weekdays, he shows up at 7 a.m. at Ford Motor Co.'s Michigan Truck Plant in Wayne, signs in, and then starts working -- on a crossword puzzle. Pool hates the monotony, but the pay is good: more than $31 an hour, plus benefits.

"We just go in and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," he says. "Otherwise, I just sit."

Pool is one of more than 12,000 American autoworkers who, instead of installing windshields or bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank set up by Detroit automakers as demanded by the United Auto Workers Union - UAW - as part of an extraordinary job security agreement.

Now the D3 wants Joe Taxpayer to pick up this tab in a $25 Billion bailout package - soon to be increased to $45 Billion if Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton have their way.

The "Big 3" want this money - not to build better autos. No. They want it to pay the tab for Medical and Retirement benefits for RETIRED auto workers. Not ONE PENNY would be used to make them more competitive, or to improve the quality of their cars.

We ALL have problems paying for our Medical Insurance - but the Democrat leaders in Congress now want us to pay the Medical Insurance premiums of folks who have RETIRED from Ford, GM and Chrysler.

Not a good deal for us.

How about Chapter 11 - and getting rid of these ridiculous union contracts?

Hey MTA . . . are these the facts behind the 20 year old agreement between the unions and the automakers????


Harder

[M_Six]

Talking about an "average" college professor's salary is useless. The range is huge. We have professors at our school making $250k per year. At the same university there are professors making less than $50k per year. Professorial pay is largely dependent on areas of expertise. English, history, social studies, etc get paid far less than economics or business or engineering or HR profs.

The Forbes data is also misleading. Much of that cost is health care and retirement for which the unions members contributed a portion of their pay. And Ford renegotiated in concert with the UAW to offload retirement health benefits on the UAW (which Ford funded with a trust fund). Ford is in much better shape now than Chrysler and GM in that respect. The Forbes data is being misinterpreted and misused by the GOP to bust up the unions. This is the GOP's best chance of doing so in many years and they're pulling out all the stops to place blame for the mismanagement of the auto companies on the unions.

Here's a news flash; the unions don't decide which cars to make. The 90 day profitability cycle is what's killing GM and Chrysler. They never thought long-term and they got burned with a production strategy which focused on SUVs and high-horsepower, low-mileage vehicles. Stop blaming unions and start looking at the short-sighted idiots running the companies.