3-days in and no threads about Gaza

[tony_j15]

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We're talking about a cease fire negotiated six months ago.

ok. that one. seriously, there have been so many cease-fire and peace talks its hard to keep track of them. That's a sad commentary for both sides.

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Collective punishment and starvation broke the cease fire when they blockaded Gaza.

[Disley]

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Originally Posted by sharder8

Game over Dizzy . . . checkmate!


Harder

If you bother watching occupation 101 in the link I posted you may understand the opposition many people have to Zionism, including many Israeli Jews.
I don't expect AR to watch it as his attention span won't hold, but you at least are capable of looking at the other point of view even if you don't agree with the tactics the criminal element in Gaza resort to, perhaps it'll help you understand their will to resist oppression.
And as I've tried to explain to you before, as well you know, stopping criminals is impossible.
You can't do it.
Hamas claims that Israeli collaborators were responsible for firing the relatively few rockets, that didn't hit or kill anyone during the cease fire, and only after the Israelis broke the cease fire did they begin firing rockets again, which were responsible for causing shock in 18 people who heard the bang.

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The rockets being fired from Gaza into Israel is the work of Israeli collaborators, says Ahmed Yusuf, political adviser to Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh. He says Hamas was willing to agree to a new cease-fire with Israel, but Israel hadn't lived up to its end of the bargain.

[MTAtech]

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Originally Posted by MTAtech

But you didn't answer the question. What were the Israelis supposed to do to stop the rocket attacks? When they asked politely they got nowhere.

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I see. Your solution is to have an open border that any Hamas terrorist can cross with a bomb vest on and Israel shouldn't worry about the rockets. You don't seem to appreciate that the helicopter and missile attacks were a response to Hamas launching rockets.

Negotiate? How can one negotiate with people who won't negotiate in good faith?

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Atlantic writer Jeffrey Goldberg recounting his interview with Nizzar Rayyan, the Hamas leader who was killed by Israeli bombs last week. "This is what he said when I asked him if he could envision a 50-year hudna (or cease-fire) with Israel: 'The only reason to have a hudna is to prepare yourself for the final battle. We don't need 50 years to prepare ourselves for the final battle with Israel.' There is no chance, he said, that true Islam would ever allow a Jewish state to survive in the Muslim Middle East. 'Israel is an impossibility. It is an offense against God... You [Jews] are murderers of the prophets and you have closed your ears to the Messenger of Allah.... Jews tried to kill the Prophet, peace be unto him. All throughout history, you have stood in opposition to the word of God.'" link

[Disley]

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Originally Posted by MTAtech

I see. Your solution is to have an open border that any Hamas terrorist can cross with a bomb vest on and Israel shouldn't worry about the rockets. You don't seem to appreciate that the helicopter and missile attacks were a response to Hamas launching rockets.

Negotiate? How can one negotiate with people who won't negotiate in good faith?

No you don't seem to realise they're a reponse to being imprisoned and starved.
Do you really believe that militants will come out of Gaza with rockets to fire if the blockade is lifted.
Collective punishment is a war crime against the 4th Geneva convention. Starvation,
along with ethnic cleansing, and all the other criminal acts perpetrated on the indigenous inhabitants of the region are what's behind this, the criminal regime in Israel want as many dead Gazans as possible, that's why they constantly fly over and bomb and fire missiles in to the cage, like the cowards they are..
When the UN ceded over 50% of the land to Israel, it didn't include ethnically cleansing the region.
Fortunately there are many Israels who actually live there and will report on the Zionist crimes.

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By Victoria Buch

January 06, 2009 "Counterpunch" -- -I arrived in Israel 40 years ago. It took me many years to understand that the very existence of my country, as it is today, is based on an ongoing ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. The project started many years ago. Its seed can be traced to the basic fallacy of the Zionist movement, which set out to establish a Jewish-national state in a location already inhabited by another nation. Under these conditions, one has, at most, a moral right to strive for a bi-national state;

"The compulsory transfer of the [Palestinian] Arabs from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we never had, even when we stood on our own during the days of the first and second Temples…We are given an opportunity which we never dared to dream of in our wildest imaginings. This is more than a state, government and sovereignty, this is national consolidation in a free homeland." [3]

"With compulsory transfer we [would] have a vast area [for settlement]…I support compulsory transfer. I don't see anything immoral in it."[3]

During the 1948 war, about two-thirds of the Palestinians who would become refugees were in fact expelled from their homes by the nascent Israeli army, and one-third became refugees while escaping the dangers of war. All these people, 0.75-1 million of them, were prevented from returning to Israel after the armistice agreement, while their homes and property were demolished or appropriated by the State of Israel.

Among the common mantras provided to the Israelis to justify the above is the following: "Israel accepted the UN partition plan, and Arabs did not, so what happened afterwards is their own fault". What is conveniently overlooked is that Palestinian Arabs constituted between one third and one half of the population of that designated Jewish homeland (according to various UN reports). Why should these people, whose ancestors lived there for generations, accept living in somebody else's designated homeland? Imagine, for example, the reaction of French Belgians if their country were designated as a "Flemish homeland" by the UN.

But the main mantra drummed into the conscience of an Israeli citizen from kindergarten, is that in 1948 "it was either them or us", "Arabs would have thrown us into the sea if we did not establish a Jewish majority state with a strong army", etc. I have my doubts about that line, too, but let us suppose for the moment that in fact, it was so. And then came the year 1967, and the Six Day War. Another chapter in the Israeli "fight for existence" against recalcitrant Arabs who just keep trying to throw us into the sea. On the face of it, that is how it seemed. I together with most of my compatriots believed for years that 1967 was in fact a moment of existential danger for Israel. Until I stumbled upon some telling quotes, uttered by our very own leaders [4]:


"(a) The New York Times quoted Prime Minister Menachem Begin`s (1977 - 83) August, 1982 speech saying: `In June, 1967, we had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that (President Gamal Abdel) Nasser (1956 - 70) was really about to attack us.

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[MTAtech]

You speak of "war crimes" and "ethnic cleansing" none of which is evident by the facts. If Israel was interested in ethnic cleansing, it would phone the target beforehand to evacuate. You are loose with the term "war crime." When Hamas places offensive weapons (rockets) in Mosques and schools, those become legitimate military targets.

I bring up the subject once again because you never addressed it, is not Australia guilty of ethnic cleansing for its treatment of the native population? If so, when is Australia going to give back the land to the rightful owners?

[SiliconJon]

Ron Paul and I Stand Alone on Gaza and Israel (The Gaza Slaughter 5/6) :: Liberty Maven

Combatant Letter 2002

[tony_j15]

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No you don't seem to realise they're a reponse to being imprisoned and starved.

Did you read any of the links we've posted that have undermined that position you continue to illogically espouse? Show me the starving people! Show me their photos, give me their names.

And if Israel was really interested in "ethnically cleansing" Palestinians, why are no bombs falling on the West Bank? Because currently the West bank is under the control of the moderate Fayyad government who are actually concerned about their people instead of using them as human shields during terror attacks.

I still don't think I've gotten an answer to this fundamental question: Does Israel have a right to exist or not?

[SiliconJon]

I just read one of your links tony, and you're rebuttal against the starvation is the "success" of so many underground tunnels dug to get around the blockade?

[Toadman]

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Does Israel have a right to exist or not?

Like when we asked ClubMed/Shahani, the silence is still deafening.

[SiliconJon]

Well sure they have the right to exist. Does Gaza as well? How has this come to be overwhelmingly or completely Gaza's accountability in action? Is Israel innocent, or less guilty to the point of lacking any accountability in the matter?