The "Golden State": Damned in Paradise?

[MegalosSkylaki]

From being the Baby Boomers dream to "go to California" in the 60's/'70's through a multiplicity of troubles fueled by a recurrant need to Re-Invent itself --which it usually has -- watching movies like One-Eyed Jacks to The Two Jakes, or seeing it live, one gets the feeling of a tarnished Paradise, albeit one that reminds me of the song-line:

" They've paved paradise to put up a parking lot. They cut down the trees and put one in a Museum and charged everyone to see it"

Yes, California is the quintessential "Green State", although I suspect its rugged geography, not its laws have protected it from becoming another Florida --despoiled by greed that cuts off even access to what what brought people there in the first place.

Personally, Ithought the flight out of the State was a good thing --although much went to Idaho which was politically more to their taste, or Nevada, which has no State Income tax.

Still reading this article from Newsday reminds me of the scene in The Two Jakes where one Jake tells another," I built this development, but [due to a restrictive covenant] I can't live here." Then there is an explosion of the gas seeping through the land the development is built on.


Newsday: DEATH OF A DREAM

MegalosSkylaki

[Chuckiechan]

Think of California as one big slum with little pockets of niceness mixed in. In the cities you have poor blacks and asians, in the suburbs you have poor whites, and the rest of the state is poor Mexicans.

This used to be a nice state until they stopped enforcing the immigration laws. Now we have a state that is 30% non English speaking ghetto. What could possibly go wrong?

[Toadman]

Native from the OC/LA area since '63. The state is a goner and a victim of PC-correct multi-culturalism. Like England and most of Europe. Like Chuckie said the pockets of niceness are now few and far between.

Like most natives I'm still only here for the beaches/weather and lifestyle. Milking it and caring for aging parents. Ex-patriating is a popular option nowadays. Save up, pack your shit and vamoose to Costa Rica, Canada, Phillipines, etc. Any non-socialist country where Americans are welcome.

[Creatures]

The state is a goner and a victim of PC-correct multi-culturalism. Like England and most of Europe.

hm either you havent been to europe before or you just dont like people with other cultures

Creatures

[Toadman]

Been there twice and want to visit again soon! I was mainly referring to the UK, creatures.
Countries with open-door sanctuary policies of immigration and ideologies.

[MTAtech]

I think the downturn started with the passage of Prop 13, which distorted the tax system, underfunding of schools and libraries, etc.

[sharder8]

Personally . . . I think the downturn started when I left Cali ('92) and vowed to never move back.

I lived in Escondido, Lancaster, and Palmdale. Worked in San Diego and LA . . . I don't miss it and have never gone back to those places to even visit. I've gone back camping in the Redwoods, spent a day in SF, and visited my Bro in Wheatland for a few days . . . but that's it.

Harder

[Chuckiechan]

which distorted the tax system

Some "distortion" Mr Liberal. My mother as senior citizen, was forced out of her house prior to Prop 13. She had to sell it and move into an apartment because she couldn't pay the taxes. The house was paid off free and clear.

[MTAtech]

Some "distortion" Mr Liberal. My mother as senior citizen, was forced out of her house prior to Prop 13. She had to sell it and move into an apartment because she couldn't pay the taxes. The house was paid off free and clear.

Actually, what Prop 13 did is discourage people from moving because the house would get re-evaluated at sale for taxes. Big houses that should have been sold to new families were kept by seniors. The remaining available houses became very expensive and young couples had to keep renting.

Never mind that three idential houses would have radically different property taxes because they were sold at different times.

Also never mind that all kinds of new taxes had to be invented to fund local gov't.

Yup, a distortion.

[Chuckiechan]

You are way off base.

Pre prop 13: Houses were re evaluated using "comps" every quarter or so and your taxes were raised accordingly. Kitchen remodel? Ditto - the bill is in the mail.

Post 13: property taxes were fixed at 1% of the houses value, and indexed to rise 1/4 of 1% thereafter. If you sold, the people buying reestablished their tax base as 1 1/4% if the new price, increasing 1/4% of 1% thereafter.

Big houses that should have been sold to new families were kept by seniors.

Like there is something wrong with a senior deciding to stay in their homes? Maybe they don't want to live in the Democrat collective...

[Pexster]

Whether you're pro or con Prop. 13, it did introduce some strange oddities in property taxes. When we moved from San Diego to Monterey and bought a small 3 BR, 1BA house, we started paying more in property taxes than my in-laws were paying for their huge house on 5 acres overlooking Monterey Bay. THAT is a weird tax system!

And to follow Prop. 13, we later passed a few initiatives letting people get around the huge jump they'd incur by moving, but only if you're over 55, and only between certain counties that opted in.

The whole thing is strange.

[MTAtech]

Whether you're pro or con Prop. 13, it did introduce some strange oddities in property taxes. When we moved from San Diego to Monterey and bought a small 3 BR, 1BA house, we started paying more in property taxes than my in-laws were paying for their huge house on 5 acres overlooking Monterey Bay. THAT is a weird tax system!

Moreover, it is an unfair tax system. Usually, house size is correlated to income and wealth (and I'll make the assumption that we believe in a progressive tax system.) Prop 13 made it so that those who were wealthy often paid less tax than those not wealthy, who lived in modest homes, merely because the wealthy ones lived in their homes longer.

[Pexster]

That's certainly true, and it also makes tax strategies paramount in making home buying and selling decisions. I think free-market advocates would agree that is inherently unhealthy and counter-productive. Inhibiting market activity doesn't help anyone in this regard.

On the other hand, we did have an out-of-control property tax problem back when Howard Jarvis and Paul Gann co-authored Prop. 13. Maybe just another example of the Law of Unintended Consequences.

[MTAtech]

On the other hand, we did have an out-of-control property tax problem back when Howard Jarvis and Paul Gann co-authored Prop. 13. Maybe just another example of the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Yes it was. Prop 13 was the sledgehammer approach to policy. After all, if the locals are taxing too much, the voters DO have the ability to vote them out and install officials who won't tax them so much. You really don't need to change the constitution.

[The Real Bingo]

California: so glad I don't live there.

[MTAtech]

California: so glad I don't live there.

Why? Do say.

I have relatives there and I envy the place when I visit. Can't beat the weather.

[Chuckiechan]

Prop 13 was the sledgehammer approach to policy

No, the state had placed too much tax burden on the middle class. So we voted to change the funding for the state.

The state is broke because the Latino's and the tony liberals in the bay area keep voting Democrats in so they can keep getting handouts in the form of more social programs and relaxed enforcement of the immigration law. The blacks haven't figured it out yet.

[The Real Bingo]

Why? Do say.

I have relatives there and I envy the place when I visit. Can't beat the weather.

As much as I like sun and warmth, the change of seasons is perfect - as soon as you get tired of the heat, it gets cold, and vice versa. San Diego does look like a paradise, though.

But, alas, I like relatively low taxes, reasonable property prices, being far away from Mexico, being able to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights nearly unfettered, and otherwise being far away from all the left-coast loonies gone crazy by overexposure to the sun and smog.

[Toadman]

Remember most left-coast loonies are right-coast transplants with now native children and grandchildren. The mild year-round weather attracts all types of course, the Bay Area "Sanctuaries" to note. Lots of $$ has been made but the well is going dry. Even the illegals are noticeably jumping ship. Still better than Florida though. One good 5.0 magnititude shaker and they pee their pants also, lol!

[SoloCamo]

Still better than Florida though.

Thanks for the vote of confidence