Canada sees boom in private health care

[MTAtech]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disley

You won't find anyone wanting to revert to the US system of health care, because sensible people realize their circumstances can change rapidly, ask any of Bernie Madoffs investors, you can have good coverage by the company you work for, and none the next day when it goes bankrupt.

That's really the bottom line.

Pro-private insurance advocates can crow all they want and use scare tactics but it's pretty easy to determine from the vast number of countries that have government coverage whether those people like it or not.

[mad1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTAtech

That's really the bottom line.

Pro-private insurance advocates can crow all they want and use scare tactics but it's pretty easy to determine from the vast number of countries that have government coverage whether those people like it or not.

The only ones I see using the scare tactics are the pro Obama care government plan. They are trying to scare people into accepting the package from the government.

Quote:

Yet the major candidates in Canada's recent national election both agreed the country's health care system is failing. They made the usual socialist diagnosis of "not enough money." None of the candidates mentioned government control as what ails the Canadian system.

A July 2004 study by the Vancouver-based Fraser Institute, Paying, More, Getting Less, concluded that after years of government control, the Canadian medical system is badly injured and bleeding citizens' hard-earned tax dollars. The institute compared health care systems in the industrialized countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) and found Canada currently spends the most, yet ranks among the lowest on such indicators as access to physicians, quality of medical equipment, and key health outcomes.

[RayH]

Even medicare has private insurance supplements for those that can afford such. But basic care is assured. Under current policy, nobody is ASSURED medical coverage as private carriers may refuse coverage for "pre existing conditions."

[MTAtech]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mad1

The only ones I see using the scare tactics are the pro Obama care government plan.

Just read this forum. "You won't be able to pick your own doctor." "You'll have to wait months (or years) to get an appointment." "It's socialism." etc., etc.

[sharder8]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTAtech

Just read this forum. "You won't be able to pick your own doctor." "You'll have to wait months (or years) to get an appointment." "It's socialism." etc., etc.

Go back and read MY post MTA . . .

I'm not trying to scare anyone, I'm just stating the facts with the current VA, which IS a Government run health care system. And, don't forget the thousands of qualified veterans that are fighting to get into the system.


Harder

[MTAtech]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharder8

Go back and read MY post MTA . . .

I'm not trying to scare anyone, I'm just stating the facts with the current VA, which IS a Government run health care system. And, don't forget the thousands of qualified veterans that are fighting to get into the system.


Harder

There is no doubt that the VA system is having difficulty dealing with so many older vets plus all the wounded from the recent wars. I don't think that's analogous to a civilian system.

[sharder8]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTAtech

There is no doubt that the VA system is having difficulty dealing with so many older vets plus all the wounded from the recent wars. I don't think that's analogous to a civilian system.

Isn't it???

It is a direct comparrison of how a currently operated federal health system works in the U.S. and the private sector. You easily see the same comments made about the health care system in Canada, U.K., and France.

Question for ya' MTA . . . What do you wanna bet that if a national health care system is implemented in the U.S., that it would be modeled after the current VA system? You've already admitted and pointed out the "so many older vets plus all the wounded from the recent wars" issue . . . now multiply it accordingly. You also need to take into account that the VA's problems deal with a very small portion of the population . . . You have to have earned the right to use it and you have to prove you have that right. In the proposed national health care system, you're going to be adding in, not only citizens, but also illegals.

As Toadman's article points out, the VA is looking for ways to cut costs in any way it can. The U.K. admits that their national health care has become a money drain, as has many of the countries that have a national health care program. What will happen if the U.S. institutes a national health care program and 5 or 10 years later, the cost has become prohibitive? (That potential is clearly there.)

Yes, we need something . . . but signing into a system/program that is outlandishly cost prohibative isn't necessarily the best answer. The Oregon VA Hospital and Oregon Health & Science University sit side-by-side and share resources, to help keep costs down, in a win-win situation. You'll have a hard time finding that in many to most of the other states.

So I guess you're right . . . the VA system, while small and selective, as compared to a national health system, isn't analogous . . . it does provide an indication of the cost and patient care problems of the proposed national health care.


Harder

[MTAtech]

Sharder,
Do you really think that if the demand for private health care increased dramatically, like the VA has experienced since Iraq, it wouldn't overwhelm the system?

The difference between the civilian govt system is it is paid by premiums. The VA is supported by appropriations.

[sharder8]

Since MTA and others don't seem to have a desire to comment on my comparrison post . . .

Let's take it another step and talk about pharmacuticals.


While waiting for the Ortho consult and now waiting for the surgery that had a waiting list of 2-3 months . . . I have to take a medication that is provided by the VA. Yeah, it is one that does work . . . but at a high cost to the patient. I'm on indomethacin, 75mg 3 times a day. Indomethacin is a maintaince drug that takes 3 - 5 days to reach maximum relief and if you miss a dose, can take 1-3 days to get back to maximum dosage. Read the damage this drug can cause . . .

In the past, I took ketoprofen/Orudis KT, and it worked even better . . . but it isn't a maintaince drug. In other words, I only had to take it as needed for the pain. Better yet, it went to work in 1-2 hours and provided relief for up to 12 hours. While it also is a dangerous drug to be taking, by taking it only as needed . . . you can cut the possible damage done to the other organs of your body.

Long story short . . . because of the formalary adopted by the VA to save costs . . . I get to damage other organs needlessly.

MTA and others . . . a new question for ya' . . .

What will the national health care plan use in its formalary??? Are they, like the VA, look at the immediate cost and ignore the long term cost? Is it fair or right to tell a patient that "we know there are safer drugs, that won't destroy other organs . . . but you have to use from our approved formalary"?

Note the recent articles about it taking 3-5 years to get drugs added to the U.K. formalary, after the release of the medication in the U.S.


Harder

[sharder8]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTAtech

Sharder,
Do you really think that if the demand for private health care increased dramatically, like the VA has experienced since Iraq, it wouldn't overwhelm the system?

The difference between the civilian govt system is it is paid by premiums. The VA is supported by appropriations.

There's where you're missing a point MTA . . .

The only thing has has increased dramatically, is the growwing list of vet's trying to utilize the VA services. Take a little time and read this report, VA leaves veterans lingering as unprocessed claims tops one million. This number is climbing daily and that affects the numbers that are treated at VA hospitals. I'm a CAT5 currently, which means that there are 4 catagories above me in treatment. Once my service related disability claim is won . . . I'll jump to CAT2. Until then, the fight continues.

What I'm saying MTA, is that the increase isn't nearly as dramatic as you think . . . when the VA is failing to add those to the rolls.
______________________________________________

As for the difference between premiums and appropriations . . .

How far do you really think those premiums are going to go??? How much will have to come from appropriations to bolster the premiums funding to meet the needs???

Once again, you need to understand that the VA system pertains to a small percentage of our population and don't for a minute think that the Vet's didn't/don't/haven't payed a healthy premium to utilize those services. (And many of us continue to pay a heavy price to use them.) Also, don't forget that my "service related" disability made me "un-insurable" in the eyes of the insurance industry in OR.


Harder