Canada sees boom in private health care  | | | 
July 6th, 2009, 09:22 PM
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#71 (permalink)
| | Not an OWO yet, just OLD!
Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Uh, Central Oregon
Posts: 5,695
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Disley  .The whole point of UHC is every gets treated for everything, there's no way they can refuse to treat you, if anything you'll be receiving better care than the VA gives you. | Let's see if this is makes sense . . .
I'm currently un-insurable . . . due to a "pre-existing condition".
Even my Employers Group policy wouldn't cover me because of the condition.
The "pre-existing condition" stems from my time in the military service.
The VA will cover me currently, because I'm a Veteran and I'm un-insurable otherwise.
If I wasn't a Vet, the VA could refuse to treat me.
No hospital or Doctor will replace my hip without insurance or a BIG chunk of cash up front currently.
Under Obama's proposed plan, my employer would close shop and I'd be without a job and still not have insurance. Unless I go under the UHC plan and then I'd have to find a Hospital and a Doctor that would do the procedure under the plan. Hm-m-m-m-m, the only Hospital in Central Oregon is a PRIVATE, non-profit that billed me several thousand for the last hip replacement and turned me in to collections because I couldn't afford to pay them back fast enough.
Oh, and what would you want to bet, that even under the proposed UHC, I would be required to go to the VA, since I'm a Vet???
Which also brings up the point I was trying to make about the VA and UHC . . . If you think there's problems now with the VA . . . wait till all the Vets who are currently not enrolled get told they have to go to the VA, because they're a Vet,  and that's their recourse under UHC.
Harder
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July 6th, 2009, 09:40 PM
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#72 (permalink)
| | Not an OWO yet, just OLD!
Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Uh, Central Oregon
Posts: 5,695
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Pexster "your post made it clear that you have/had no knowledge of what is and has been going on in regards to AO."
My post did no such thing. You just have such a knee-jerk reaction to label anything I post as "stupid" and somehow an attack on your own position. DonL and Sara did much the same.
Essentially, I was making the same point, and since I have lost friends due to this, I find your attitude more than a little insulting. I spent years listening to my friends rant about the VA. One of them was a tunnel rat who lost a leg, half his jaw, and half his hearing. Another lost both legs, and one arm.
You really should read before going on the attack, sir! | I did go back to your original post and it still says: Quote: |
Maybe over time, the VA could restrict itself only to war-related injuries and illnesses. Gee, maybe if we had something like that in place, my friends who have died from Agent Orange and government malfeasance and outright dishonesty could have actually been helped.
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While you did later state: Quote: |
OK, I should have stated service-related, not war-related.
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Your original post still stands.
The VA's primary mission is and always has been service related injuries. But, they also have picked up the veterans who can not get insurance for one reason or another. Good or bad???
Now, let's get back to the crux of our arguement . . . your friends that have and/are suffering/died from AO. For what ever reason, the VA is still fighting the AO angle. They're also fighting the mystery diseases from Desert Storm. Why I don't know, and just like you, it piss' me off as well. (My niece is one of the Desert Storm cases) Another problem with the VA is, they will deny any service related claims, even when it is clearly the case, like mine. They will deny it multiple times before they'll even consider it, they paperwork will go missing. In cases like mine, once they admit that they made the mistake, they'll refuse to pay interest on the back payments, even though it is mandated by law. That's another fight I'll face before it's all done.
Pex, your friends and I are no different . . . we've had to fight tooth and nail for what we should have gotten quickly and easily with the documentation that was available. I have enough documentation between what I had and what the USAR and Active records have already returned . . . but, I still have to wait for the VA to provide copies of what they have on me. BTW, the VA is known to have lost said documents numerous times to avoid paying and admitting they were wrong in the past.
Harder | |
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July 6th, 2009, 10:02 PM
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#73 (permalink)
| | Ultimate Member
Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: 30-41,000ft
Posts: 4,719
| Quote: |
Under Obama's proposed plan, my employer would close shop and I'd be without a job and still not have insurance. Unless I go under the UHC plan and then I'd have to find a Hospital and a Doctor that would do the procedure under the plan. Hm-m-m-m-m, the only Hospital in Central Oregon is a PRIVATE, non-profit that billed me several thousand for the last hip replacement and turned me in to collections because I couldn't afford to pay them back fast enough.
| This has me somewhat concerned. Unsealing and revealing our veterans medical history to a public organization where wounds and symptoms occurred in classified operations. | |
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July 6th, 2009, 10:32 PM
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#74 (permalink)
| | Not an OWO yet, just OLD!
Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Uh, Central Oregon
Posts: 5,695
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Last edited by sharder8 : July 6th, 2009 at 10:38 PM.
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July 6th, 2009, 11:11 PM
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#75 (permalink)
| | Ultimate Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,063
| Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundZero3 Im curious if this UHC is pushed through if it will mean the closing of the VA. I mean if everyone has healthcare, why would the military need its own provider anymore? | You sir hit the nail on the head and part of the bigger problem I did not elaborate on but eluded to. That is, redundant organizations, clinics, hospitals and administration that will undoubtedly suck the life blood out of ANY initial UHC. Disley touched on what we should be doing and I will elaborate why it will not work later.
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Originally Posted by sharder8 When I started the process in March, I expected it to take months . . . with the snail pace of the VA now, I would be surprised to finalize it before I die.  |
I realize your pain my brother and wished there was something I could do on your behalf besides the nasty letters to my representatives I have sent. This is why I strongly suggest to any young ears that will listen to avoid the military like the plague until our citizens can become pissed off enough to force change where their has been little. Generally speaking unless the individual has motivational issues where he is going to be borderline asvab anways and stuck in a crappy mos, military service is a waste of the rest of your life as it typically puts you four years behind the people you will have to compete with for a job when you realize that a career in service is unlikely. It is a class issue. Using the GI bill opposed to financial aid is a crock. You will realize much more personal wealth not playing the role of worlds policeman. Selfish service is for another topic and best after you become degreed.
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Originally Posted by sharder8 The point I and others are making . . . is that the VA is a Government run program. No matter how you cut the cake, UHC will be a Government run program! What I'm seeing in the VA, will happen in any Government run UHC . . . whether paid for by premiums or subsidized. |
Not necessarily but as Disley adequately pointed out, we need to learn from our Nations and others mistakes and put our best foot forward. Will we? No! We are to prideful as a species to generally learn from another's mistake. UHC should be government subsidized and not ran by government as it is currently understood by me, HOWEVER to many redundant, bloated administration and loopholes WILL ABSOLUTELY be a drain if we do not pull our heads out of our asses and put that best foot forward even if it pisses some people off. I do not see President Obama doing that yet but bear in mind in this country you have to start somewhere and tweak it for the next 100 years when the media reports on the gross fleecing off the system and people DEMAND the very solutions that the naysayers lobbied against. That's democracy I guess. Sure is expensive!!
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Originally Posted by sharder8 BTW, my boss has already told us, that if the current proposal goes through, and if he has to pay the proposed per employee amount . . . he will close the business and we will be out of a job. I've talked to several other small companies and they've said the same thing. This is just the starting of the Great Unemployment Increase to come. |
Hard to say for sure but the idea of running multiple programs side by side sure is stupid! Put comprehensive coverage in place of EVERY other program (VA, Medicare ect) and I think we will definitely see this country return back to prominence! There are way too many straws on this camels (current UHC bills) back to suceed any other way. The VA should be turned into any other hospital or clinic. NO NEED! Regional Hospitals could be forced to have a set amount of military doctors that have seen combat related trauma on staff. What has struck me as hilarious as far as the VA system in Madison, WI is concerned is that here you are being seen by doctors whose rotations encompass VA rotations anyways but have never been in service. A good doctor is just that!
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Originally Posted by sharder8 The problems with Agent Orange have been known for years. Your friends and anyone involved with, sprayed with, or in the area where it was used, should have had medical treatment years ago. The VA is just now starting to come around to what scientists have been saying for years and admitting they should step forward and do the right thing and take care of those service members. It's a sad, sad, story when those who served our country are ignored and forgotten, like those involved with agent orange have been. There's a growing number of soldiers from Desert Storm that are fighting debilitating illnesses, that the VA is ignoring as well. |
My father died two years ago from such an aggressive form of cancer that literally ate his body (even though he smoked) that the cancer specialists at Mayo in Rochester, MN had LITTLE doubt was related to AO.
With that said this experience coupled with our chemical alarms going off in Country and our NBC Sgt having NO CLUE and receiving multiple letters years later claiming that "I may" have been exposed to depleted uranium, cyclosarin nerve agents and fun other toxins that will/are undoubtedly festering give me the unique experience and authority to inform our poor misguided youth. If the VA took care of us sharder that would be another thing but they have consistently pissed on the American Soldier.
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Originally Posted by GroundZero3 I was a dependent, and this was the ER on base to see the military doctors. I remember various times when I was in the ER really late at night where there was only one or two people sitting out in the waiting room and not being seen for several hours. I always dreaded going to the military hospitals because of that |
I did also when I was puking up stomach vile and they prescribed milk and less stress . While on leave I went to my city er where the vile had turned bloody and 300mg of Zantac was prescribed. An ulcer by 20! Woot!! My brother enjoyed getting his wrist rebroke twice to reset correctly at Ft Sill. Good times.
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Originally Posted by Disley Instead of making excuses not to change, you should be pushing for the best system possible, that covers everyone, you'll all be paying for it, and in the long run you'll be better off.
Plus what's to lose, you can keep your private cover as well, if you think you need extra cover |
VERY WELL SAID! But your post is conflicting! We do not need private insurance if this bill is passed correctly. We need to do EXACTLY as you suggest and have a comprehensive UHC bill to begin with!
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Originally Posted by Disley .The whole point of UHC is every gets treated for everything, there's no way they can refuse to treat you, if anything you'll be receiving better care than the VA gives you. |
I agree and exactly why the VA needs to be downsized to deal with exactly what they were intended for, service related injuries unique to the men and women who would have never experienced some of these issues back in the world. Problem is the VA has gotten to be such a monster the only way to get rid of it is to cut off its head and hope its babies are adopted by other monsters.
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Originally Posted by sharder8 Under Obama's proposed plan, my employer would close shop and I'd be without a job and still not have insurance. |
Hold out hope the bill gets tweaked. Unlikely I know. More costs thrust on business is ABSOLUTELY NOT the answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharder8 Unless I go under the UHC plan and then I'd have to find a Hospital and a Doctor that would do the procedure under the plan. Hm-m-m-m-m, the only Hospital in Central Oregon is a PRIVATE, non-profit that billed me several thousand for the last hip replacement and turned me in to collections because I couldn't afford to pay them back fast enough. |
Another problem that has not been addressed as far as I know. Are people who owe these hospitals, clinics and doctors going to be eligible for treatment again regardless of past balances?
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Originally Posted by sharder8 Oh, and what would you want to bet, that even under the proposed UHC, I would be required to go to the VA, since I'm a Vet??? |
Not under my suggestion! This would again be insulting to Vets! Limiting their choice!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharder8 Which also brings up the point I was trying to make about the VA and UHC . . . If you think there's problems now with the VA . . . wait till all the Vets who are currently not enrolled get told they have to go to the VA, because they're a Vet, and that's their recourse under UHC. |
Protesting sounds fine for me! Every Vet refuses to work and camps at their state capitals until they fix the problem! I have a feeling we will find deep sympathy for our plight then. | |
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July 7th, 2009, 04:50 AM
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#76 (permalink)
| | Ultimate Member
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia
Posts: 2,573
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You're right sharder I didn't read the first posts, I don't know what they're proposing.
I can only tell you how it works here, and all your the things you worry about wouldn't be an issue.
All taxpaying citizens are issued with a plastic card and number, with themselves and dependents on the card. We are all covered for everything and ex-military and their dependents get free prescriptions and extra care.
Illegal immigrants aren't covered, I don't know how they get around not paying, but I'm sure they know ways, there's a fraud department that takes care of these things.
It's up to you to push for the system that suits you, not the insurance companies, who've been getting rich from the present system, and so far Obama hasn't impressed me by standing up to entrenched corporations, lobby groups and most opposition.
That would be my biggest worry if we were changing over now. | |
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July 22nd, 2009, 03:53 AM
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#77 (permalink)
| | Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 279
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This map shows that people in countries with UHC like Canada, Australia and most of Europe enjoy long lives, while the US shares a life expectancy range with Mexico, Venezuela, Algeria and Libya.  - Wolfram|Alpha | |
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July 22nd, 2009, 09:04 AM
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#78 (permalink)
| | Light to Counter the Dim
Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Long Island, NY, USA
Posts: 6,696
| Quote: United States, and the millions more whose expensive and restrictive policies give them little say in their care.
No one who lives here legally goes without treatment because they can't afford it. No one goes bankrupt because of illness. Businesses and workers are not burdened with expensive insurance premiums, and those who lose their jobs still get care.
Of course none of this is free, but it's a lot cheaper than the American way of doing things: U.S. health care spending is about 16% of GDP, compared to less than 10% in Britain. Numerous studies show Britain with better health outcomes than the United States, but one statistic stands out: American life expectancy is 78 years, compared with 79.2 in Britain. ...
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