Palin Says Obama's Plan to Overhaul Health Care is 'Evil'  | | | 
August 8th, 2009, 03:05 PM
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#11 (permalink)
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But the taxpayers are not in the business of keeping old people alive past their productive years. One illegal alien working in construction is worth a lot more than one 70 year old granny who worked all her life and now needs a hip replacement.
| Touche'.
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August 8th, 2009, 03:16 PM
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#12 (permalink)
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But the taxpayers are not in the business of keeping old people alive past their productive years. One illegal alien working in construction is worth a lot more than one 70 year old granny who worked all her life and now needs a hip replacement. Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadman  Touche'. |
| [sarcasm]Yea, we see how Medicare is shutting of senior's respirators every day.[/sarcasm] 
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August 8th, 2009, 03:23 PM
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#13 (permalink)
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Politics of fear. 
They wouldnt shut down the respirators. Maybe just let her pass from malnutrition, neglect or bed-sores so the productive ROI people can be treated. You know, the D-cells who keep the economy afloat and not a drain.
Ever hear of the values clarification game called "lifeboat" where there is only room for two people out of five and decisions must be made who lives or dies based on future viability? Is this a decision you want to relinquish from the family?
Last edited by Toadman : August 8th, 2009 at 05:09 PM.
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August 8th, 2009, 08:41 PM
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#14 (permalink)
| | Pump you sucker! Pump!
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[sarcasm]Yea, we see how Medicare is shutting of senior's respirators every day.[/sarcasm]
| They plan to take 500 billion out of Medicare to help fund Obamacare for "productive citizens", legal or otherwise...
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August 8th, 2009, 10:51 PM
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#15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Pexster Besides, those with means can always get any medical care they desire, anywhere in the world. Isn't that what free marketers like? The irrationality of the scare tactic arguments is just amazing!
There are valid arguments to be made against all the current proposals. Why can't the right just make those arguments and come back to the real world as serious people? | So is that an admission that those without 'means' will just have to take what the government gives 'em?
And who has 'means'? $250k per year? $100k per year? If the tax for the health care was voluntary, I'd have no problem. Opt out and get private. But it doesn't work like that. You have to pay the premium whether you have the insurance or not. And you think the insurance companies are bad!  | |
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August 9th, 2009, 07:39 AM
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#16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The Real Bingo So is that an admission that those without 'means' will just have to take what the government gives 'em? | Welcome to the real world. Those without means currently either don't have coverage at all; are on Medicaid; or must take whatever their private coverage offers. | |
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August 9th, 2009, 09:28 AM
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#17 (permalink)
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Those without means currently either don't have coverage at all; are on Medicaid; or must take whatever their private coverage offers.
| If you consider going into an emergency room to be treated as "coverage", then everyone is insured.
But Democrats don't consider that "coverage" for some reason. | |
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August 9th, 2009, 09:54 AM
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#18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Chuckiechan If you consider going into an emergency room to be treated as "coverage", then everyone is insured.
But Democrats don't consider that "coverage" for some reason. | Now you are debating out of both sides of your mouth. First, you say it's too expensive. Then, you say that the uninsured should go to emergency rooms for primary care -- which is the most costly and the cost is imposed on everyone else.
"The idea that doing nothing and going on without changing the way this country's health care is delivered works to the benefit only of the insurance companies, the giant health care providers and the big pharmaceutical companies." source | |
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August 9th, 2009, 01:23 PM
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#19 (permalink)
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Suddenly a robust, cheerful woman of 79, whose only mobility problem had been climbing stairs, began to talk of never leaving hospital again but of being “laid out on a marble slab” - and when the hospital asked for our permission not to resuscitate her should she lose consciousness, we realised this was no paranoid fantasy.
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Pauline Pringle wasn’t lucky. Her mother Sarah Ingham died around the same time and in similar circumstances, on January 6 last year: a badly dislocated hip was missed and after the operation that eventually followed, Sarah spent 12 weeks in Tameside hospital, Manchester, failing to shake off a post-operative infection and - denied a proper diet - losing three and a half stone in weight. She was then sent home, where the local GP knew nothing of her discharge and didn’t recognise her as the same woman he’d seen three months earlier. She died within a fortnight. At the inquest the coroner, John Pollard, said that he would be writing to the hospital to demand an explanation for Sarah’s malnourishment: “It is totally unsatisfactory in a major city in a western democracy that families have to bring food into a hospital because their loved ones are not being fed properly by staff.”
…One much quoted figure suggests that up to half a million elderly people in the UK are being abused at any one time. Unlike child abuse, elder abuse is rarely reported beyond local newspapers, and those who inflict it are less likely to be held to account.
When a House of Commons health committee produced its report, Elder Abuse, in 2004, it suggested that “abuse in domiciliary settings is the commonest type”. Overall, though, whereas the old are more likely to be robbed of money or possessions by their nearest and dearest, they’re more likely to starve to death in a hospital or care home. Dr Adrian Treloar, a specialist in geriatric psychiatry, caused a furore in 1999 when he applied the phrase “involuntary euthanasia” to the way in which elderly patients in NHS hospitals were being deprived of food and water and “left at the bottom of the pile”.
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“I was told that my daughter had Down’s when I was about 12 weeks pregnant and every doctor, gynaecologist I saw tried to convince me a termination was the best option. I was still offered this at 26 weeks! One reason given to me by a cold-hearted consultant was that ‘these babies put a strain on the NHS’. My daughter was stillborn and when pregnant again, I refused all tests apart from a scan. It’s not society who are looking for the ‘perfect baby’, it’s the medical profession.”
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August 9th, 2009, 04:52 PM
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#20 (permalink)
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