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[cyphen]

There was a "preventative" terror raid of three apartments in NY.

`Preventative' terror raid targets NYC apartments

Isn't this the very kind of thing we heard the left denouncing with great fervor since 9/11?

[Gomer]

There was a "preventative" terror raid of three apartments in NY.

`Preventative' terror raid targets NYC apartments

Isn't this the very kind of thing we heard the left denouncing with great fervor since 9/11?

I think you've got an apartment in NYC mixed up with a country in the Middle East.

Are you still under the impression that you're not a partisan hack?

[cyphen]

I think you've got an apartment in NYC mixed up with a country in the Middle East.

Are you still under the impression that you're not a partisan hack?

I think you must have your head in a place where the stench prevents the functioning of neurons.

I'm calling out partisan hacks... those who railed against the patriot act, railed against homeland security, claimed we were rounding up innocent people who were "illicitly targeted" as being terrorists - giving those under investigation every benefit of the doubt to make the president and his policies look as bad as possible.

I'm calling out those partisan hacks.

And then, of course, there are partisan hacks like yourself... who are so smug about it that they fail to see beyond their own nose, and act like they're the only one in the world whose opinion matters.

Man, you've been absolutely off your game since your vacation! Shut down time and time again. You doin' ok? I mean, you can't even make that simple correlation, but rather must stretch all bounds of reason to their breaking point to try and paint all prior leftist rant as being about Iraq. Maybe that's just a symptom of what you're like when you're defensive.

Anyone who wasn't a partisan hack would immediately recognize that yes indeed, the left would have been denouncing this very raid if it occurred at any point during the last administration.

If i were a partisan hack, i'd be railing against this in order to smear Obama's administration. I'm not, because i stand for principle over politics.

[Creatures]

what is wrong with raids? i seriously doubt anyone is against it as long as it's not misused

Creatures

[The Real Bingo]

Remember, cyphen...it's preventative, not preemptive. We're playing word games again.

[tony_j15]

Isn't this the very kind of thing we heard the left denouncing with great fervor since 9/11?

Wait...so this is something you want to have happen and the politicians are finally agreeing with you on it and now you're pissed?

[The Real Bingo]

Wait...so this is something you want to have happen and the politicians are finally agreeing with you on it and now you're pissed?

Maybe he never agreed with it. Maybe the left is being hypocritical - that would be something different.

[tony_j15]

in that case, substitute "right-wing" for "you" and "left-wing" for "politicians".

[MTAtech]

The article stated no detail but did say that they had warrants, which means that they presented enough probable cause to a judge.

Gomer is right, you are trying to link an analogy between conducting a legal raid of a possible terrorist in one's own country to a preventative invasion of another sovereign nation (Iraq.) Needless to say, the two are not analogous.

[cyphen]

oh please. we all know this would have been hyped by the left and the media... how no weapons were found, there was no specific target... they were all innocent cab drivers... they probably strong armed the judge... all that jazz...

I want these investigations done, done well, and done right. What i'm saying is that what the left railed against under bush, they now accept, and will probably defend as finally being done properly... as noted in MTA's tone. Legal actions taken under the bush administration were dounced regularly.

[Toadman]

authorities easily nabbed Zacarias Moussaoui in the weeks before 9/11, but prosecuting the alleged terrorist has been far from smooth. Here are the twists and turns in a case many thought would be open-and-shut:
When Zacarias Moussaoui was enrolled in flight school in Eagan, Minn., he could have easily looked up in the sky to see the kind of airplane he wanted to fly. Along the approach to the Minneapolis-St. Paul airport, 747s screamed overhead day and night. His flight instructor at Pan Am International Flight Academy found Moussaoui genial but clueless and totally unable to explain why he wanted to pilot a 747. The school's administration called the fbi, and he was arrested nearby on Aug. 16, 2001. When investigators interviewed the 33-year-old French Moroccan and asked him whether he planned to use a plane for a terrorist attack, he either did not answer or asked for a lawyer, according to different sources familiar with the session. He was then held for overstaying his visit to the U.S.

Less than a month after he was locked up, 19 al-Qaeda operatives boarded four commercial jetliners and turned them into aerial bombs, killing more than 3,000 people in the worst terrorist attacks ever on U.S. soil. Within days, investigators began piecing together intriguing parallels between Moussaoui's actions and those of the hijackers. He had come to the U.S. to attend flight school, just like the hijackers; he too had purchased knives; he too possessed flight manuals for commercial jets. Three months to the day after the attacks, Attorney General John Ashcroft proudly announced a showstopping list of conspiracy charges against Moussaoui—who the government strongly hinted was the missing 20th hijacker—calling the indictment "a chronicle of evil." He was—and remains—the only person in the U.S. charged in connection with 9/11.

[The Real Bingo]

The article stated no detail but did say that they had warrants, which means that they presented enough probable cause to a judge.

Gomer is right, you are trying to link an analogy between conducting a legal raid of a possible terrorist in one's own country to a preventative invasion of another sovereign nation (Iraq.) Needless to say, the two are not analogous.

So invading a home of an American citizen isn't as bad as invading Afghanistan (yeah, you forgot about that one) or Iraq? I guess we know where your priorities are. You're the type who thinks the rights of our war prisoners is more important than the rights of everyone else.

[tony_j15]

I think when police present reasonable evidence to a judge that a crime could be committed and are given search warrants, it not only makes it legal, but most likely meets ethical criteria as well.

[Gomer]

I think you must have your head in a place where the stench prevents the functioning of neurons.

You're right! It's one of your threads. Stinks to high heavens of partisan hackery.

I'm calling out partisan hacks... those who railed against the patriot act, railed against homeland security, claimed we were rounding up innocent people who were "illicitly targeted" as being terrorists - giving those under investigation every benefit of the doubt to make the president and his policies look as bad as possible.

I'm calling out those partisan hacks.

And then, of course, there are partisan hacks like yourself... who are so smug about it that they fail to see beyond their own nose, and act like they're the only one in the world whose opinion matters.

Man, you've been absolutely off your game since your vacation! Shut down time and time again. You doin' ok? I mean, you can't even make that simple correlation, but rather must stretch all bounds of reason to their breaking point to try and paint all prior leftist rant as being about Iraq. Maybe that's just a symptom of what you're like when you're defensive.

Anyone who wasn't a partisan hack would immediately recognize that yes indeed, the left would have been denouncing this very raid if it occurred at any point during the last administration.

If i were a partisan hack, i'd be railing against this in order to smear Obama's administration. I'm not, because i stand for principle over politics.

as for the rest of that nonsense... you post a breaking news story with extremely limited detail, specifically to denigrate "the left".

That's hackery. You're a hack.

As always... if there were any examples of opinions you'd like to cite from the archives of these forums of "denouncing with great fervor" have at it. If you're "calling out partisan hacks" in these forums... you might as well call them out by name, eh?

Regarding my Middle East comment, it was as much a joke as it was anything else. Mainly it was directed at "denouncing with great fervor." As to me, that's the main thing that fit that description. Our ill-advised, unnecessary, cluster-f**k of an invasion that was dubya's wet dream realized. That's fervor. Great even.

[MTAtech]

What i'm saying is that what the left railed against under bush, they now accept, and will probably defend as finally being done properly... as noted in MTA's tone. Legal actions taken under the bush administration were dounced regularly.

So invading a home of an American citizen isn't as bad as invading Afghanistan (yeah, you forgot about that one) or Iraq? I guess we know where your priorities are. You're the type who thinks the rights of our war prisoners is more important than the rights of everyone else.

I think when police present reasonable evidence to a judge that a crime could be committed and are given search warrants, it not only makes it legal, but most likely meets ethical criteria as well.

Apart from what cyphen said, many actions by the Bush Administration that the "left railed against" were not legal. They picked up suspects, without warrant, held them without charges and prevented them from seeking legal counsel. That's several orders of magnitude different from the facts in this case.

To TRB, sorry, searching a suspect of terrorism on American soil by American police is not in the same category as invading another country that was no threat. I would hope that you can perceive that distinction.

Tony is 100% correct. Although cyphen is attempting to take a jab at liberals by trying to equate this action with that of the Bush Admin., and thus charge liberals with hypocrisy, the dots just don't connect. Bush's actions where judged illegal by the courts. This action followed establishes legal standards and police procedures, including getting a warrant prior to search. While no guns were said to be found, the police aren't saying what they did find.

This is just another example of the right-wing bitching because they just needs something to bitch about.

[Theophylact]

There's a story about this in today's New York Times. It's looking more and more like a pissing match between the FBI and the NYPD, and less and less like a plot at all:

A Colorado man whose visit to New York apparently set off government raids on several Queens apartments on Monday has denied having ties to al Qaeda or any other terrorist group.

“I have nothing to do with this,” said the man, Najibullah Zazi, 25, who was reached by telephone in Colorado on Monday and Tuesday. “This looks like it’s going toward me, which is more shocking every hour.”

Law enforcement authorities have not divulged the man’s identity, but they confirmed that he was suspected of having al Qaeda ties and was already under surveillance for that reason.

The man whom officials were watching left New York last weekend, according to officials who have knowledge of the raids but were not authorized to discuss them. No arrests were made and no explosives or weapons were found.

Representative Peter T. King of Long Island said agents of the city’s Joint Terrorism Task Force “acted very appropriately” in carrying out the raids.

“It was based on the totality of the evidence, and from what I understand of the evidence, it was important that they acted when they did,” Mr. King said. “I am positive they did the right thing.”

Federal authorities regarded the man to be a legitimate terrorist suspect who had become the focus of intense investigation and elaborate covert surveillance before his trip to New York, according to government officials briefed on the case.

The man’s arrival last Thursday appeared to be the event that prompted authorities to stop his car near the George Washington Bridge and then carry out the searches that began late Sunday night — based on federal search warrants drafted during a frantic weekend in which prosecutors in New York and Washington hastily assembled the necessary legal documents. Officials said they decided to disrupt any plot that might have been imminent, but the raid came before investigators understood the suspect’s intentions, according to several federal officials. Because there were no arrests, officials have been left to assert that they acted out of an abundance of caution.

But several said the raids were carried out well before investigators had a prosecutable case, and before they had figured out the nature of the plot, its intended target or its likely means of execution — if there was a plot at all.

Several federal officials said they were persuaded that the case was an important one and had been moving in a significant direction, but was prematurely brought to a close at the urging of police officials in New York.

(Pete King is the ranking member of the House Homeland Security Committee, and the only Republican Representative from Long Island.)

[MTAtech]

DENVER – The FBI arrested a 24-year-old Colorado man on charges of making false statements to federal agents in an ongoing terror investigation, and supporting documents contend the man admitted receiving weapons and explosives training from al-Qaida in Pakistan.
Najibullah Zazi of the Denver suburb of Aurora was arrested late Saturday after undergoing three days of questioning by the FBI. Zazi, a legal permanent resident from Afghanistan, was due to appear in federal court on Monday.

2 Colorado men, 1 NYC man arrested in terror probe - Yahoo! News

[mad1]

Man arrested for alleged terror plot to blow up federal courthouse

SPRINGFIELD — A Downstate man has been arrested on terrorism-related charges for an alleged scheme this week to blow up the federal courthouse in the state capital, federal prosecutors announced Thursday.

Acting U.S. Attorney Jeffrey B. Lang said that Michael C. Finton, of Downstate Decatur, who also uses the name “Talib Islam,” was arrested on charges of attempted murder of federal employees and attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction.

Last February, Finton began meeting with an undercover FBI agent posing as a “low level al-Queda operative” and over a period of months discussed bombing locations in the U.S., including the Paul Findley Federal Building and Courthouse in downtown Springfield, prosecutors said.

Finton allegedly conducted surveillance on the courthouse and advocated detonating a car bomb. He is alleged to have discussed making the nearby office of U.S. Rep. Aaron Schock (R-Ill.) a secondary target.

Earlier this month, Finton met with the undercover FBI agent and was told a van would be available for the attacks and would contain 1 ton of explosives, the complaint alleged.

On Wednesday, Finton allegedly drove that vehicle — containing explosives he didn’t know were inactive — and parked it directly in front of the federal building, got out of the van and joined the undercover agent a few blocks away in another vehicle, where Finton attempted to detonate the explosives with a cell phone.

FBI agents immediately arrested Finton after he allegedly tried to explode the van, Lang said.

Police: Man attempted to blow up Springfield courthouse :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Metro & Tri-State

[MTAtech]

Isn't this the very kind of thing we heard the left denouncing with great fervor since 9/11?

No, this time we're actually catching terrorists and bringing them to trial.

The suspect, Najibullah Zazi, 24, was to be held without bail pending his transfer to New York, Magistrate Judge Craig B. Shaffer ruled in Denver.
...
The 12-page detention memorandum ... said Mr. Zazi scouted a store in Queens for an acid essential in creating the bombs, and two weeks ago slept in an apartment in Flushing, where investigators recovered a scale that could be used in making explosives.
...
“On at least two separate occasions, the defendant in the Denver area was seen purchasing products that have high concentrations of hydrogen peroxide,” Mr. Neff said.
Mr. Neff told Judge Shaffer how Mr. Zazi had transferred onto his hard drive “the recipe, if you will, the instructions for making this particular bomb.” link

[cyphen]

If you think this wouldn't have had the ACLU all over it, and partisan articles from MoveOn and huffington, claims of abuses of due process, and all of the other hollow cries of the last 8 years, then you're deluding yourself. And it would have all come along with charges of racial and religious profiling. Probably entrapment, too.

I applaud the actions taken, and appreciate the lack of criticism - but note the complete lack of fair treatment of the previous administration for trying to keep us safe, and put a stop to such plots. In fact, the stoppage of such plots were diminished under the previous administration, and treated with suspicion and skepticism.