Go Go Obamacare!

[Whir]

Op-Ed Columnist - Learning From Europe - NYTimes.com


Take everything with a grain of salt, only the slow man doesn't, but it's nice to see something other than "I TOLD YOU SO" when it comes to social democracy.

[The Real Bingo]

Funny he doesn't mention anything about individual freedoms and liberties. More tax = less freedom. Europeans have no right to bear arms and get punished for trying to protect themselves. I don't want the rights of the whole to destroy the rights of the individual. Europe can keep its 'social democracy' (codeword for socialism). Say no to the nanny state.

Just one example: Europe Slapping Rich With Massive Traffic Fines - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com

At least the Swiss voted for it!

[MTAtech]

Funny he doesn't mention anything about individual freedoms and liberties. More tax = less freedom. Europeans have no right to bear arms and get punished for trying to protect themselves.

Yeah, Europeans are free from going bankrupt due to medical bills;
Europeans are free from losing medical coverage if they lose or shift jobs;
Europeans are free to have paid leave when they have a baby;
Europeans are free from the high murder rate of the U.S.;
In total, Europeans are free to have a better quality of life.

More taxes doesn't mean less freedom and as Krugman points out, it doesn't undermine incentives, stall growth or stop innovation. Another conservative myth busted.

[The Real Bingo]

Then by all means move. Please.

[MTAtech]

Then by all means move. Please.

I'd rather stay and make this a more perfect union.

[Whir]

I don't understand how you end up at your conclusion that socialized health care will take away our right to keep and bear arms. If I thought that for even a second, I wouldn't support it.

[MTAtech]

I don't understand how you end up at your conclusion that socialized health care will take away our right to keep and bear arms. If I thought that for even a second, I wouldn't support it.

Or how higher taxes take away our freedom to own guns. Maybe it's the shogun approach to argument?

[Zoomy]

British guy here. I'm going to admit I don't know much about American healthcare apart from what I've been lead to understand about it by the T.V programs and films such as The Rainmaker.

To summarise my opinions; blow that for a game of soldiers.

And the NHS doesn't stop us having guns. Sensible gun laws stop that.

[Creatures]

you have no idea about our gun laws, even the Germans allow you to have guns at home (as many as you like as long as you make sure no one can get to them without your permission)

and I highly support scaling fines, it should hurt else it would be useless

Creatures

[Mickwish]

I have a reasonable concept of healthcare provision in various countries, and I fully support Obama's attempts to provide more equity to the US populous. Whilst his solutions have been watered down from the orginal bold plan, it is a start.

There is no current ideal government healthcare system; all have some flaws, many of which relate to restrictions on what can be provided. But I support the idea that no person should be refused basic life saving healthcare.

No comment about gun laws as this is about healthcare,

Cheers
Mick

[mad1]

Mickwish;

There is no current ideal government healthcare system; all have some flaws, many of which relate to restrictions on what can be provided. But I support the idea that no person should be refused basic life saving healthcare.

No one in America can be refused basic lifesaving health care, the ER by law can not turn away a person in need of medical attention.

[Mickwish]

Maybe I should have said basic healthcare to maintain health, then.

Cheers
Mick

[Whir]

No comment about gun laws as this is about healthcare,

Well, it started out as a social commentary on why Obamacare isn't going to destroy the country and why people that use Europe as an example of how it will are dumb heads.

Tangents are the best way to be aware of things in order to inform yourself about things though.

[The Real Bingo]

No comment about gun laws as this is about healthcare,

No, it's about how Krugman talks about how European economies are at a parity with the USA. Fine. He fails to mention the freedoms we have that they don't. I am not talking about how socialized health care = no guns (but there is a plausible situation where that could be true). Our country is more free market based, and therefore we have more freedom...though we are becoming less so every day.

[Whir]

I take away your freedom to talk about our freedoms.

[The Real Bingo]

The very aspect that Obama care forces you to have health coverage is just one more branch off the freedom tree. Funny how that works. But, the 'social democracy' apologists will say, "it's free health care and deficit neutral!" Can I have a hit of that pipe?

[MTAtech]

The very aspect that Obama care forces you to have health coverage is just one more branch off the freedom tree.

That argument is like the nuts in the 1950s that felt having kids vaccinated as a requirement for school was an infringement on their freedoms.

If one lives in a society you must live within boundaries. In cities, you don't have the right to burn garbage in the streets. If you live in a village you can't pee in the common well. As a society, we want to make sure everyone has health care. What you call limits on your freedom are just common sense rules.

[The Real Bingo]

You are incorrect.

[MTAtech]

That's convincing.

[Black*Dragon]

I don't understand how you end up at your conclusion that socialized health care will take away our right to keep and bear arms. If I thought that for even a second, I wouldn't support it.

I would point out that I said European liberalism would never work in the United States. If I was wrong then how do you explain the popular resistance against the Democrat majority in the houses of congress? The American people did not vote for European style government.

European government will never work here....each of our states is like a country there....

We are 50 Democracies under 1 Republic. FREEDOM DEMANDS DIFFERENCES AND A COMMON SOUL.

WE ARE THE ONES TO TEACH EUROPE MODERN DEMOCRACY........SO YOU DEMAND WE FOLLOW THEIR DESCENT INTO SLAVERY TO OUR GOVERNMENT?

And yes you are only talking about a toe into the door......Thomas Jefferson could teach you more if you ever bothered hearing him.

Fascist only need one crack sweetheart.....just one crack. Perhaps you can explain to me why the majority of Americans hate this bill....

This is not European style health care but a play for power......never mind Obamacare will never survive the courts.

Or do you think the Constitution something to be adjusted at will like your compatriots.