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  1. #1
    MR Meek and Mild Epidemic's Avatar
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    Is the pope infallible?

    If so how does one explain the inquisition, killing of ancient intellectuals as heretics, papal armies collecting taxes to build rome at the point of a sword. The historical selling of the throne of st peter through bribes of cardinals to families of power.

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    Tech IMO Bug Finder pickel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epidemic View Post
    If so how does one explain the inquisition, killing of ancient intellectuals as heretics, papal armies collecting taxes to build Rome at the point of a sword. The historical selling of the throne of st peter through bribes of cardinals to families of power.
    Specific references ????

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    The Jiggawatts, Marty! tony_j15's Avatar
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    Is the pope infallible? Nope, but they have been/are very powerful, which is almost as good.

    No human is perfect. I find it silly to believe any man or organization can somehow be imbued with divine truth.
    All 1.21 of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tony_j15 View Post
    Is the pope infallible? Nope, but they have been/are very powerful, which is almost as good.

    No human is perfect. I find it silly to believe any man or organization can somehow be imbued with divine truth.
    I agree 100%
    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana

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    MR Meek and Mild Epidemic's Avatar
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    Papal infallibility is part of catholic religion. Yet it is unquestionably proven that by todays church's teachings the popes of old were often in the wrong.

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    Fact Checker Gomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony_j15 View Post
    Is the pope infallible? Nope, but they have been/are very powerful, which is almost as good.

    No human is perfect. I find it silly to believe any man or organization can somehow be imbued with divine truth.
    What I want to know is why the man has to travel around in an impenetrable bullet-proof glass aquarium.

    What happened to the power of prayer???

  7. #7
    What? SoloCamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony_j15 View Post
    Is the pope infallible? Nope, but they have been/are very powerful, which is almost as good.

    No human is perfect. I find it silly to believe any man or organization can somehow be imbued with divine truth.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gomer View Post
    What I want to know is why the man has to travel around in an impenetrable bullet-proof glass aquarium.

    What happened to the power of prayer???
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    Nothing To See Here butch81385's Avatar
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    Glad to see that none of you understand the concept of Papal Infallibility. It does not mean that the Pope can do no wrong. It does not mean that everything that the Pope says is truth. It does not mean that everything that the Pope does is correct.

    Papal Infallibility means that the Pope's words are infallible ONLY when talking on a dogma of the church and done so in a specific manner. The Pope himself is not infallible per se, but instead the Holy Spirit does not allow the Pope to teach an infallible dogma. This is not a common occurrence. Actually in the 2000 year history of the church there have only been a handful of infallible statements proclaimed by Popes (11 have been officially listed, but noted as not all-encompassing. I would guess that maybe 20 in total).

    That being said, I don't expect any non-Catholics to believe any of this, because, face it, if you did believe that the Holy Spirit did not allow the Pope to make a false statement while making an "infallible statement" you would probably become Catholic. Who would believe that a leader of a church would have that close of a relationship with God without being correct?
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    The pope and his church are full of it. Why not release some of those records people want?

    Mathew 10:17 there we go.

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    Nothing To See Here butch81385's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gomer View Post
    What I want to know is why the man has to travel around in an impenetrable bullet-proof glass aquarium.

    What happened to the power of prayer???
    Luke 4:12 "Jesus answered, "It says: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'""


    All things are possible with God (Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead) but that doesn't mean that you should be stupid or reckless and not do your own due diligence in the meantime.

    That being said, the last time I saw the Pope he had the windows down in the Popemobile and was sticking his arm out the window to wave to people.
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  11. #11
    Nothing To See Here butch81385's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taxmancometh View Post
    The pope and his church are full of it. Why not release some of those records people want?

    Mathew 10:17 there we go.
    What records are you waiting to get released?
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  12. #12
    What? SoloCamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butch81385 View Post
    Luke 4:12 "Jesus answered, "It says: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"".
    Religion isn't so much my thing to discuss, but isn't that akin to saying "Do not dare question his actions?"

    In other words do not dare question nor test the powerful one. Which in my eyes and all my experience gathered in my short time here on earth means there are actually things that should be tested and gathered as they simply may not be the truth, or there is more to the story than what is provided.

    But just throwing it out there, not really my topic to discuss, nor really one I want to dig into extensively due to too many unknown variables.
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    The Jiggawatts, Marty! tony_j15's Avatar
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    AFAIK, there's not even an actual list of "infallible statements" and it can range from 2 to over 20 depending on which group of theologians is consulted.

    One would think if something is actually infallible it would be written and universally agreed on...you know, like theories of gravity and such.

    But do we see infallible statements appended to the front of the bible? No. Do we see hundreds of different biblical commentaries? Yup. After two thousand years, one would think infallible statements would be more or less agreed on.

    Luke 4:12 "Jesus answered, "It says: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'""
    He said that to Satan, and was quoting from Deuteronomy 6:16, which refers to a singular situation where the Hebrews were crossing into Palestine. Depending on which theologians one wants to follow, it can be stated that Jesus fulfilled the law, rendering the entire Old Testament moot. Ergo, putting the lord to test is just fine.
    Also in rebuttal, Malachi 3:10 says to test god in reference to tithing.
    Romans 12:2 says to test god's will.
    All 1.21 of them.

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    Things pertaining to the Illuminati for example. Or the existence of UFO's which the church has claimed to be true to some extent.

    Scroll down to the The Secret Vatican Archives. Vatican Hidden Archives Articles - Vatican Hidden Archives : Angels and Demons Truth

    Vatican Secret Archives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Vatican Acknowledges ETs

    Quote Originally Posted by butch81385 View Post
    What records are you waiting to get released?
    Last edited by Taxmancometh; December 31st, 2011 at 05:59 PM.

  15. #15
    ph34r t3h g04t Whir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post
    Religion isn't so much my thing to discuss, but isn't that akin to saying "Do not dare question his actions?"
    Actually, in the context butch used it, correctly or incorrectly, what he was saying is "don't expect God to step in front of the bullet when you willingly put yourself in its path."

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    What? SoloCamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whir View Post
    Actually, in the context butch used it, correctly or incorrectly, what he was saying is "don't expect God to step in front of the bullet when you willingly put yourself in its path."
    Thanks for the correction. Like I said, Religion isn't exact a can of worms I like to open so thats all I need to know on this one! (mostly because I will not pretend to know even half as much on the topic as some of the others here)
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    Indispensable Member surreal's Avatar
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    Is the pope infallible?

    No, Catholic...

    ba dump bump

  18. #18
    Tech IMO Bug Finder pickel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surreal View Post
    Is the pope infallible?

    No, Catholic...

    ba dump bump
    Agreed.

    But , not half as Infallible as I am !
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  19. #19
    Fact Checker Gomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butch81385 View Post
    Luke 4:12 "Jesus answered, "It says: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'""


    All things are possible with God (Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead) but that doesn't mean that you should be stupid or reckless and not do your own due diligence in the meantime.
    Yes... But how is going out in public putting god to the test?

    And wouldn't the pope be assassinated if, and only if, the assassination was part of god's plan (like cancer and plane crashes and drunk drivers killing innocent people and all that)?? What of the omniscience and omnipresence and all?

    That being said, the last time I saw the Pope he had the windows down in the Popemobile and was sticking his arm out the window to wave to people.
    He stuck his hand out? BFD. Put the top down already!

  20. #20
    MR Meek and Mild Epidemic's Avatar
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    Wow the pope can lead his sheep wrong, horribly wrong, but god steps in only regarding dogma???

    But the church does not know what infallible statement has been made.

    Records of dead popes are sealed for 70 years until all parties are dead and dogma is now tradition .

    I would think that all church records would be open to the public even during the popes life... Unless there is something to hide.

    Is dogma a real term? Can we know what infallible statements the pope has made? Or is this some sort of vague claim that can keep you from questioning anything a pope says while keeping him human and a sinner.

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