January 9th, 2012, 01:12 PM #1
Class Mobility in the U.S. less than most thinkHarder for Americans to Rise From Lower Rungs
...many researchers have reached a conclusion that turns conventional wisdom on its head: Americans enjoy less economic mobility than their peers in Canada and much of Western Europe. The mobility gap has been widely discussed in academic circles, but a sour season of mass unemployment and street protests has moved the discussion toward center stage.
It’s becoming conventional wisdom that the U.S. does not have as much mobility as most other advanced countries,” said Isabel V. Sawhill, an economist at the Brookings Institution. “I don’t think you’ll find too many people who will argue with that.”
One reason for the mobility gap may be the depth of American poverty, which leaves poor children starting especially far behind. Another may be the unusually large premiums that American employers pay for college degrees. Since children generally follow their parents’ educational trajectory, that premium increases the importance of family background and stymies people with less schooling.
At least five large studies in recent years have found the United States to be less mobile than comparable nations. A project led by Markus Jantti, an economist at a Swedish university, found that 42 percent of American men raised in the bottom fifth of incomes stay there as adults. That shows a level of persistent disadvantage much higher than in Denmark (25 percent) and Britain (30 percent) — a country famous for its class constraints.
Meanwhile, just 8 percent of American men at the bottom rose to the top fifth. That compares with 12 percent of the British and 14 percent of the Danes.
Despite frequent references to the United States as a classless society, about 62 percent of Americans (male and female) raised in the top fifth of incomes stay in the top two-fifths, according to research by the Economic Mobility Project of the Pew Charitable Trusts. Similarly, 65 percent born in the bottom fifth stay in the bottom two-fifths.Conservatives: "If the facts disagree with our opinion, ignore the facts -- or at least misrepresent them."
January 9th, 2012, 02:33 PM #2
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The USA: It's not a meritocracy, it's an aristocracy.
Of course, that goes against the whole "we're numba 1!" mantra, so cue the flags and patriotic music and go back to paying your bills, peasants.Good job, friend-of-friends!
January 9th, 2012, 02:40 PM #3
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January 9th, 2012, 02:56 PM #4
The real question is, how do we charge what we are to be more like nations with greater mobility?Conservatives: "If the facts disagree with our opinion, ignore the facts -- or at least misrepresent them."
January 9th, 2012, 03:08 PM #5
So 58% of those in the bottom fifth rose out of poverty?
When I look at a black Englishman I wonder if they simply have a leg up because they are part of the majority culture. or is the lack of cultural diversity in england just a byproduct of the media that I see and there is a huge subculture
I would like to see the statistics based upon cultural lines. This goes for Hicks, African American's those in the ebonics crowd, and those who choose to remain teathered to latino community.
I believe multiculturalism is generally a bad idea, I believe that everyone should make an attempt to be part of the majority culture. Failing to do so is done to your own detriment.
I am not against other cultures but I believe you do yourself a disservice by singling yourself out of the larger community. I think things would be alot better if we did not have our chosen group in front of our nationality. If we were all just Americans, and English were just English...
We also have a large problem where we are importing poverty, I don't know how many of those who live and work here illegally but if you are pigeon holed up in the world of illegal immigrants your chances for advancement are limited.
Perhaps England has all these problems in the same quantity but from my very limited exposure I don't see it.
Last edited by Epidemic; January 9th, 2012 at 03:20 PM.
January 10th, 2012, 02:38 AM #6The real question is, how do we change what we are to be more like nations with greater mobility?
Stop going to school stoned
Stop staying up until 3 AM texting your girl/boy/sheep friend
Stop giving 'tude to your new boss when you get a job
Quit borrowing for an education in underwater basket weaving
Avoid getting busted for drugs, DUI's, theft and other crimes
Stop using vulgar language at work
Avoid showing off your "suit" of tattoos at work
In fact, try this: Act Asian. Have a strong work ethic, and an appreciation of education and the opportunities it provides, and be polite to your superiors and co workers.
The biggest detriment to upward mobility is acting like you belong at the "low station" you inhabit."The world burns while Obama Tweets."
January 10th, 2012, 03:12 AM #7
January 10th, 2012, 10:34 AM #8
Not all Asians are Chinese.
Regarding bitter... I can't speak for Canada, but the US workforce has definitely seen a decline in quality, but we are able to import workers with skillz..."The world burns while Obama Tweets."
January 10th, 2012, 11:31 AM #9
January 10th, 2012, 01:08 PM #10
"We know that every father has a personal responsibility to do right by their kids - to encourage them to turn off the video games and pick up a book; to teach them the difference between right and wrong; to show them through our own example the value in treating one another as we wish to be treated. And most of all, to play an active and engaged role in their lives," he said.
sourceConservatives: "If the facts disagree with our opinion, ignore the facts -- or at least misrepresent them."
January 10th, 2012, 03:01 PM #11
that is like saying champagne and cake are the same thing because they both have sugar used in making them
Teaching your kid right from wrong.
Can mean (depending on who defines it the Asian work ethic)
Don't go on the dole
You have personal responsibility
You should conform to society it is to your advantage.
You should be civil to authority.
Education should be job 1 to insure you can support yourself.
Education should first and foremost be in a field that you will likely be able to support yourself.
or right from wrong can be
Don't be judgmental (we should support people less fortunate than ourselves)
Don't demand high educational standards (because someone might feel bad about themselves if they do not achieve)
Your lot in life is set by the powers that be and you need others to boost you above your current station.
Your feelings are right and you should never filter them (specifically when dealing with authority)
Conforming to society is caving (one should consider their way first regardless of the outcome)
January 10th, 2012, 07:58 PM #12
What about Chuck's recipe allows for upward income mobility? I won't touch on the fact that his list doesn't even mention anything about, you know, hard work, but what I will say is that there are plenty of people out there who are perfectly respectful, conscientious, hard-working people who don't "go to work stoned" or "stay up til 3AM texting" and who have a very difficult time in the area of advancing their career and growing their incomes.
To blame deep systemic problems on drugs and texting is ridiculous. At best.
January 10th, 2012, 08:07 PM #13http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOtab0BKOGY
The Nation which forgets it's defenders will itself be forgotten
You cannot make peace with dictators. You have to destroy them–wipe them out!
January 11th, 2012, 11:05 AM #14
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rolling on the floor isn't the most sane action either, pickel
it could be construed as bad form just as vulgar language, unless you were attempting to create an innovative way to clean the floor.
January 11th, 2012, 11:15 AM #15Wow, you sound like Obama!"The world burns while Obama Tweets."
January 11th, 2012, 11:25 AM #16
it is like swimming with the fellow members of the community telling you that the more lead you carry will allow you to float better. some people can't swim, some folks can swim but for the weights, some can swim better and make it to shore but your chances of making it to shore are better if you don't follow the communities suggestion to carry those lead sinkers for boyancy.
Last edited by Epidemic; January 11th, 2012 at 11:27 AM.
January 11th, 2012, 11:40 AM #17Originally Posted by Brandon
Soo... the fewer things people have to bitch about concerning you and your work habits as well as your personal habits, the better off you are when management is looking for someone to fill a slot.
Do you really want an accounts receivable manager sitting down with you and a potential investor, and your A/R manger has "Thug Life" tattooed on his neck?"The world burns while Obama Tweets."
January 11th, 2012, 12:58 PM #18
November 2, 2011, 4:18 pm
A Mind Is A Terrible Thing To Lose
OK, I see that some people are doubling down on the claim that rising inequality is all about education — when what the CBO report drives home is that this is all wrong, the big increase has come from gains at the very top. I have to admit that I have a sneaking suspicion that this is in part driven by KDS (DS for derangement syndrome): some people will rush to take a position precisely because I have debunked it. But anyway, it’s really, really wrong.
Here’s the CBO result:
Notice that the 81-99 percentiles have seen only modest gains; it’s really the top 1 percent that drives the story.
For comparison, here’s some data on wages of men by education from EPI:
Not the perfect comparison, but good enough. Notice the difference in scales. College graduates have made only modest gains, and basically nothing after 2000; even advanced degrees weren’t giving anything like the gains we see for the top 1 percent (and the much bigger gains of the top 0.1 percent).
Yes, college grads have done better than non; but inequality in America is mainly a story about a small elite pulling away from everyone else, including ordinary college grads. And we’ve know this for a long time! There is no excuse for getting it wrong.
January 11th, 2012, 01:54 PM #19
Did the top 1% increases in your graphs cause the bottom 20% to have flat to lower wages? Or has our economy been flooded with illegal aliens, and have we had decrease in unskilled labor positions, increasing the number of people bidding for low paying jobs?
January 11th, 2012, 09:12 PM #20
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