January 13th, 2012, 08:28 AM #61
January 13th, 2012, 09:07 AM #62
But FSM and christianity are two very different sources, people were willing to die for christianity on crosses after wittnessing what jesus supposedly did. Of course those clowns did kill themselves in heavens gate on pretty shaky evidence. So I am not sure you can judge validity based on willingness to die.
But what you call fabricated beliefs filling a vacuum could well be recorded events not simply beliefs. Well it is possible?
There is a creater of the universe (but he is hands of)
There is a creater of the universe (he is hands on god)
The universe is completely natural
Then again there is a 4th option
Bob an intellect simply imagines everything and we are simply characters in his mind. Alone in a nothingness Bob Thinks we all exist and he imagines each of our lifes and events in our lives. We don't even exist but for the never ending story in his head.
January 13th, 2012, 01:54 PM #63Originally Posted by Epi“Religion: Together we can find the cure.”
January 13th, 2012, 02:59 PM #64
We have people word and actions as evidence. That is what the whole religion thing is about.
Give me a motive for the people who followed jesus to fabricate a religion? They did not collect large sums of money as they were crucified? they did not win favor with the community or power? So what was their motivation to lie?
They did not exibit the typical cult behavior (well I might stretch on that one) but typical cult leaders seem to seek power or money again christianity did not seem to have this.
So we have as evidence that people left their faith and converted to a religion with detrimental effects on their lives for at least 100 years. Why?
is there any more evidence that troy existed beyond the tales of homer that ultimately lead us to believe troy existed.
ultimately in 1865 it was found but for a long time you would have said it was false based upon your logic. You would have been wrong.
Can we apply occams razor to the reason for conversion of jew to christian?
explaination 1) thousands of People saw miracles and pursuaded people of these miracles they saw first hand that this guy was the one to follow. Where trusted family members and friends gave testimony of what they had seen.
explaination 2) Thousands of people all became insane and with no evidence converted from their family religion despite the risk.
explaination 3) a few greedy people figured they would profit from starting this new religion that had less taxes no structure to pass money up the chain. Had less power than current church. they thought they would become powerful leaders of a new church despite the fact they were being killed as heratics.
I don't understand why people use occams razor.
lets just take the for instance 1000 years from now god makes an appearance and tells us he is real. Would occams razor be wrong? probably not because it is only as good as the input.
if god turns out to be real then obviously the simplest sollution for everything is the universe is like it is because god made it that way. What could be more simple than that?
You think you lost your glasses, you left them on the table.
your son could have picked them up.
a psycho robber could have seen your glasses and decided to break in and steal them.
any number of other wierd possibilities.
Based on simple sollution it is your son who did it. But in that 1 in a trillion case where someone stole them due to some psychosis occams razor would have been wrong based on the available info.
Best example of this is in my own childhood.
My father had a parts car in the back yard. one day he notice that the tires were all flat. I was notorious for lying and I would on occasion do things my dad did not understand. When prompted as to why I flattened the tires I answered with the truth. "no dad I did not flatten the tires."
possible theory) I was lying and it was the kind of thing I would do
another theory) someone came to our back yard and flattened all 4 tires and did nothing else to anything.
final theory) over night all 4 tires went flat on their own.
It is unlikely that someone would have come to my house and flattened the tires there was no apparent motive.
Tires don't simply go flat over night(further evidence that the tires held air when re-inflated.)
the winner is that I who is known for doing things like this just because, my history proved that I was a liar and as such I had to be the cause of the flats... well that is true but for one fact. I did not flatten the tires!
the new result is that someone from the community decided to flatten them for some unknown reason. because tires don't go flat for no reason overnight.
Last edited by Epidemic; January 13th, 2012 at 03:14 PM.
January 13th, 2012, 03:06 PM #65
To sum up why the Christian god became popular, the people wanted a god of their very own so one was created out of the fabric of the many gods that came before. Jesus was not claimed as a deity until many years later. It was a developing story sold to the masses. No eye witness testimony or words from this guy Jesus. He is merely a foot note from the time by writers of the time with little mention of him. James gets better press.“Religion: Together we can find the cure.”
January 13th, 2012, 03:26 PM #66
January 13th, 2012, 03:39 PM #67
I also question the use of occams razor to prove or disprove god. I think Occams razor is only a spring board for choosing from a list of options. It does not eliminate other alternatives, at best it just lowers their likelihood so you can test the easiest solution.
I.e. my computer wont turn on. is it a virus I havent gone to the internet or loaded software, blown motherboard it is high quality and not likely to fail anytime soon, well the easiest answer to check is it is unplugged.
January 13th, 2012, 03:50 PM #68
I did answer his question. Just because a lot of ancient people became believers doesn't prove the existence of a god. Just because a lot of people today believe in some god doesn't make it so either. Miricles happened only because of the lack of a plausible explanation such as what we understand about magic today. It's about the ultimate gullable joke played on society that doesn't want to wait for the real answer to questions using instead someone elses subjective reasoning for their conviction. Crazy people have their convictions of ideas too but we lock up many of them for observation. Their ideas just aren't as popular.
The motivation for this joke on man kind has never changed. Religion is a tool that creates a group think that authorities can use. What was once a little religious faction became a big powerfull politicdal force which needed to be explored and capitalised upon by the higher ups.
Constantine got all the people under 1 banner. brought all Christians together under 1 tent. Realled in the pegans with appeasments. Created a society that he could use to it's fullest extent. A power move motivated by politics.“Religion: Together we can find the cure.”
January 13th, 2012, 05:13 PM #69
Epi, did anyone ever figure out who flattened the tires?Never send to know for whom the bell tolls . . .
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