Better to be pissed off than on

[Bill in SD, CA]

They will be punished and receive their just rewards!


Harder

Your probably right about that.

Bill

[bigBonehead]

The fact that a video was made is the damaging part IMO

That shows pee-meditation... um.. er Premeditation

[Pexster]

Well, I have learned (slowly sometimes over the years) that I don't know what I am talking about in this area, and trust sharder to clarify.

[Creatures]

Conduct such as these Marines committed are a disgrace to the country, Military forces of the U.S., the Marine Corp., and their fellow Marines.

PTSD is no excuse, number of tours is no excuse! They will be punished and receive their just rewards!

!

[pickel]

Article 34 Investigation is already under way. At least 2 of the Marines have been identified and are still with the unit state side.

Off the top of my head, I can see:

Conduct un-becoming.
Desecration of a corpse.

Both charges are provable with the video. Both can result in reduction one grade in rank, forfeiture of pay, and restriction to quarters. I'm sure both charges will be Field Grade Article 15's.

Conduct such as these Marines committed are a disgrace to the country, Military forces of the U.S., the Marine Corp., and their fellow Marines.

PTSD is no excuse, number of tours is no excuse! They will be punished and receive their just rewards!


Harder

At least these dudes didn't get videoed pumping a couple of more clips into their bodies.

The Taliban cats didn't feel a thing.

You bring a gun to a gun fight , YOU DIE !!

I do not condone their actions, however, I have NO problem with it.

Semper Fi

Blame the guys that sent them there and the guys who fired upon them.

Boys will be Boys.

[jacko49]

[QUOTE=pickel;

The Taliban cats didn't feel a thing.

I have NO problem with it.



Boys will be Boys.[/QUOTE]

AS an ex soldier (so you claim) i find you responses as well this lines appalling and idiotic,I
as an ex soldier would have loved to have you in my company,as you would be disciplined by me and become a potatoes cleaner in no time and not trusted. what is this bull of PTSD you keep bringing up? ever heard of the seals having one? this unit of elite snipers are top of the cream,and failed to live up to the conduct of a good soldier,you kill and move on next,(any stress you out) stress in normal but you get the best of the best-just like pilots training/fail safe.
Did you think what would happened if a USA soldier falls in to their hands aftermath from now on?
people like you should not own firarms as u untrustworthy.

[sharder8]

Jacko -- pickel was a sailor, (a deep blue sailor at that), . . . not a ground pounder. His patriot heart is in the right place, but he has no understanding of the life of a grunt besides what he's read and seen the results of being a grunt, from visiting the VA Hospitals.


Harder

[pickel]

AS an ex soldier (so you claim) i find you responses as well this lines appalling and idiotic,I
as an ex soldier would have loved to have you in my company,as you would be disciplined by me and become a potatoes cleaner in no time and not trusted. what is this bull of PTSD you keep bringing up? ever heard of the seals having one? this unit of elite snipers are top of the cream,and failed to live up to the conduct of a good soldier,you kill and move on next,(any stress you out) stress in normal but you get the best of the best-just like pilots training/fail safe.
Did you think what would happened if a USA soldier falls in to their hands aftermath from now on?
people like you should not own firarms as u untrustworthy.

Jacko -- pickel was a sailor, (a deep blue sailor at that), . . . not a ground pounder. His patriot heart is in the right place, but he has no understanding of the life of a grunt besides what he's read and seen the results of being a grunt, from visiting the VA Hospitals.


Harder

Althought I may have not been a "Grunt", I went to military high school and finished the basic JROTC . Knowing the mindset of the Army mind ( no offense Harder )and having many relatives in the Naval service during WW2 and Korea and, especially bei8ng 180 degress out from the military way of life, I joined the Navy during the Cuban missile crisis. Hoping to kick some Cuban or Commie ass.
Also, having grown up in the school yards of NYC where they ain't no rules, Army life would have been a disaster for me and the Army.
IMO, any officer or non com who resorts to putting off his problems on others ( become a potato cleaner ) isn't worth his salt as a leader. Take to it the head ( latrine or whatever ) and correct my behavior like a man instead of putting me on report and telling daddy Colonel 'Pickel was a bad boy"
The neighbor is a Seal who did numerous tours in Nam and I know full well what ,ACTUALLY goes on out in the bush. You don't have to lecture me.
Having gone to so many funerals to the point where I couldn't endure another during the war, I reckon, I haven't much feeling about our enemies , especially the animals over in the Afghan provinces.
We had no business going over there and I cannot find fault with anything the guys do.
A kid in our neighborhood got drafted in Nov'67, went to basic then AIT , hit Viet Nam in late February '68 and came home two weeks later in a shoebox. When my eyes meet his Mother's at the church, I felt the pain only a Mother can feel and cried. Don't tell, I don't know what the ravages of war are.

SP4 BURT J. MEYER, JR.




Sand to Glass...IMO

[Epidemic]

so now you compare pissing on dead to bar fights and disagreeing with your leader? ;p

Creatures

I say pissing on a corpse is a lesser crime than a bar fight. In this case no one was hurt.

[GroundZero3]

No excuse for this behavior period.

[pickel]

No excuse for this behavior period.

If you saw the movie "Midway", you'll remember, as Glenn Ford and the others listened to the pilot's transmissions as they bombed the Jap aircraft carriers.
One pilot ,as his bombs landed on the flight deck and exploded Exclaimed, "Look at that sucker BURN " Emotions , during and soon after a firefight are very distorting to the human mind. When I took my firearms course, the instructor told us that it takes 2/3 days to get over confusion of taking a life.
Killing, although I have never killed anyone, is , probably, one of the greatest Highs one can experience.
And with the knowledge of the past atrocities the Taliban have done to men, women and , especially children ( young girls and their teachers ) , I find their actions, not appropriate , but not alarming either.
We weren't there and didn't almost lose our lives or limbs.The people who sent these guys over should have taken these scenarios into consideration or went the hell over there themselves. It's easy to judge others sitting in the dugout. Get your Ass out in the field, then you have room to talk.

[Epidemic]

I find their actions, not appropriate , but not alarming either.

that says it all in my book. I don't see this as a sign of a bigger problem in and of itself.

I think witholding pay, rank, and weekend liberty. I don't mind it going their permanent record. But I would not jail them, kick them out ... based upon the info I have right now.

Threre simply is no victim of this crime here. I still classify this as a minor lapse in judgement.

There may be no excuse for these actions GZ but you can't see this happening on occasion with a bunch of 20 something guys in a post battle moment of groupthink?

it is definitely on the fringe side of things but has it really gone overboard?

[sharder8]

Killing, although I have never killed anyone, is , probably, one of the greatest Highs one can experience.

NOPE! Surviving was the high . . . death is never a high, in my personal experience.

And with the knowledge of the past atrocities the Taliban have done to men, women and , especially children ( young girls and their teachers )

Still not an acceptable excuse according to the UCMJ, GC, LLW, etc.

There may be no excuse for these actions GZ but you can't see this happening on occasion with a bunch of 20 something guys in a post battle moment of groupthink?

Tell me Epi . . . how many thousands have served over there and not done something like this? This was un-acceptable behavior by the individuals and there is no excuse for desecrating the bodies.

it is definitely on the fringe side of things but has it really gone overboard?

Way over board! There has been no acceptable desecration of bodies in modern warfare!


Harder

[Epidemic]

Sharder8,

I don't know, knowing the immature people I did in the military, I would say quite a few incidents akin to this have happened. The question is how many have made the news and how many idiots video taped and then released it.

I do not find this event surprising, any more than someone chucking a moon, or flipping the bird at the wrong venu. The conduct was unbecoming, and does not represent the ideals. Legally I don't know what the ramefications are.

As for desicration I find it to be the most impulsive and least offensive next to spitting on it. In the end who was hurt by the actions. Besides the media hub bub on this non story.

[sharder8]

In the end who was hurt by the actions. Besides the media hub bub on this non story.

The reputation of our military! We pride our military on being professional . . . this is a set back that is reverberating around the globe.


Harder

[Epidemic]

I can't argue that it is used as fodder by the media and our enemies. That is why I recommend they don't do it on a regular basis. But everyone is in an uproar over a minor inicident. In the scope of problems with war this does not really even deserve air time.

Questions like should we be there, should we ask for referendum in these countries to see if our presence should be continued.

Should are soldiers be put in harms way with rules of engagement that favor the enemy?

Pissing on a dead guy by some idiot really does not bother me in the least. In fact I really did not mind when they dragged our soldiers through the streets. Once dead it only hurts our feelings if we let it. Dead people really don't mind AFAIAC.

[sharder8]

Should are soldiers be put in harms way with rules of engagement that favor the enemy?

Ask our politicians to explain that one Epi . . . They're the ones requesting and demanding those orders.

Pissing on a dead guy by some idiot really does not bother me in the least. In fact I really did not mind when they dragged our soldiers through the streets. Once dead it only hurts our feelings if we let it. Dead people really don't mind AFAIAC.

The dead don't give a crap . . . however, their families/relatives/fellow countrymen do!

Tell me Epi . . . are we a civilized country or are we a barbaric country? Are we a professional fighting force or a band of hooligans?


Harder

[Epidemic]

Actually we are a civilized country to some extent. As for a professional military. You are kidding yourself if you think that bodies are not routinely kicked spit upon... Our military force is professional as a whole but sometimes with just the right set of circumstances people do boneheaded things.

Drinking too much, getting roudy at a nightclub, burping in public, I will even bet they fart on occasion.

our military is not a band of hooligans. But on occasion you will see people do different things to vent their frustration. As long as no one is physically hurt I think the punishment should be mild . I think barring other problems these soldiers should go back to their platoons and perform some community service as it were. If there is a history of stupidity then kick them out. I just have a problem pulling a guy out of his platoon where he has served with honor, dedication, and heroism because he made a minor mistake.

[sharder8]

Look back at what I suspected the punishment to be . . .


Harder

[Epidemic]

I saw what you suggested, and the strongest of those punishments I do not like in this situation.

I really would not like this even to hinder these soldiers careers let alone boot them.

The worst I would like to see is loss of weekend liberty, perhaps a fine, and or at worst reduction in rank but I really think that goes too far for this small indescression.