Actual Terrorist Plot Foiled

**tony_j15** · May 9th, 2012, 12:44 PM

Unlike those fake plots crafted by the FBI for publicity (and to keep the sheeple scared to make sure their budget continues to increase), the CIA was involved recently in an honest-to-goodness takedown of an actual plot by "Qaeda" operatives in Yemen.
How'd it go down, you ask? Did it happen because of wiretaps on American citizens? Did it happen because we spend billions to scour the Internet and log the activities of every American? Did it happen because we detained and tortured someone? Did it happen because the TSA was oh-so-thorough in searching dangerous babies?

The answer is no. It happened the old fashioned way: via a Saudi double-agent.

The next time someone tells you America is safer since 9/11 because of all the money we've "invested" in security via technology, kindly tell them to shove it.

**Epidemic** · May 9th, 2012, 02:49 PM

No but had they missed it the TSA searching babies would be the next stop. I am sure you could pack quite a large explosive in a pair of huggies.

how did the double agent get placed in that particular cell? was it the target cell collected by wire taps, torture, were internet searches involved in target selection???

In your world had we not been lucky enough to have a double agent in place you would happily let this guy board an airplane to insure that you don't have to be xray scanned or patted down.

Anti terrorism is made up of many distasteful things.

An imperfect incoherent spider web of the following:
Drone attacks
Interrogation (nice and mean)
Wire taps
Sattelites
GPS transponders
Spies
probably assasinations/murders
Informants
Bribes
Rewards
.
.
.

and yes!
Security Scans
Pat downs

The last two are simply the last chance to thwart a plot.

**tony_j15** · May 9th, 2012, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Epidemic

In your world had we not been lucky enough to have a double agent in place you would happily let this guy board an airplane to insure that you don't have to be xray scanned or patted down.

Actually, as I've said before, just use Israeli tactics. He wouldn't have made it on the plane because he would get singled out for additional questioning pre-flight.

Security Scans
Pat downs

The last two are simply the last chance to thwart a plot.

Security scans in America have never thwarted a single plot. They never will, because they are always fighting "the previous war." Why do we have to take our shoes off now? The shoe bomber. Why do we have invasive body scanners? The underwear bomber. Current TSA methods won't catch anyone because they are outdated and unintelligent. They rely wholly on technology and lack any sort of intelligence structure.

how did the double agent get placed in that particular cell? was it the target cell collected by wire taps, torture, were internet searches involved in target selection???

Got me. Feel free to ask the Saudis.

**Epidemic** · May 9th, 2012, 10:03 PM

Well in this case it was an underwear bomb. Seems like the last war tactics still being played.

Besides I still think Israeli screening in America would not stand up to pressure from guys like you. Crying about the process.

**tony_j15** · May 10th, 2012, 01:19 PM

From the article:

He also handed over the bomb, designed by the group’s top explosives expert to be undetectable at airport security checks,

I still think Israeli screening in America would not stand up to pressure from guys like you. Crying about the process.

So you are saying the process I am asking for is a process I am against. Want to think about that for a minute?

**zen** · May 10th, 2012, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by tony_j15

Current TSA methods won't catch anyone because they are outdated and unintelligent. They rely wholly on technology and lack any sort of intelligence structure.

Do you fly often? Probably never or you wouldn't be making such ridiculous statements.

**Epidemic** · May 10th, 2012, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by tony_j15

So you are saying the process I am asking for is a process I am against. Want to think about that for a minute?

Well I view you as a civil liberties type. I assume when people start complaining that they are being screened in those El Al type screening rooms that you will start to complain. If not, I am sorry I characterized you that way.

But in the end TSA is bound by stupid US civil rights and as such from what I have read about Israeli screenings they do profile. We would either have to pat down every passenger or use a random process. right now we have chosen the random process because it is the only practical way to ever get people moving on their way.

**tony_j15** · May 10th, 2012, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by zen

Do you fly often? Probably never or you wouldn't be making such ridiculous statements.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

Epi, I'm pro-civil liberties, but I recognize that there are situations where liberty unfortunately must be compromised, such as on roadways or airlines. You are correct that there are probably a lot of people who would view an Israeli solution as being intrusive or racially motivated. It's a tough situation, no doubt.

**zen** · May 10th, 2012, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by tony_j15

Feel free to prove me wrong.

Epi, I'm pro-civil liberties, but I recognize that there are situations where liberty unfortunately must be compromised, such as on roadways or airlines. You are correct that there are probably a lot of people who would view an Israeli solution as being intrusive or racially motivated. It's a tough situation, no doubt.

You didn't answer the question. Are you basing your assumptions on sensationalized journalsim or actual experience?

Originally Posted by tony_j15

Actually, as I've said before, just use Israeli tactics. He wouldn't have made it on the plane because he would get singled out for additional questioning pre-flight.

Do you think what works for 4 million passengers a year will also work for 700 million?

**tony_j15** · May 10th, 2012, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by zen

You didn't answer the question. Are you basing your assumptions on sensationalized journalsim or actual experience?

I don't fly. Now that we got that out of the way, feel free to actually debate my statement.

Do you think what works for 4 million passengers a year will also work for 700 million?

You can't clone the system, no. You can import the ideas and actually put a little intelligence into the US system. It currently has none.

**Epidemic** · May 10th, 2012, 04:06 PM

Zen actually I don't know if there is essentially any difference between 4 million and 700 million.

but for the fact that we have such an expensive way of doing things here.

it all boils down to number of people screened / number of screeners. Economies of scale would say we should be able to do it and do it for less per passenger. Unless you factor in the huge beauracracy we would probably put in place.

Would each airline passenger be willing to pay 57 dollars to be grilled or would they rather have 1 in 10 groped in order to save that money

as of 2010 it cost us 7 dollars per passenger to screen people. don't ask for a link I have no idea where I found it anymore.