This is evidence

[de_day]

I told you we should wait for ALL of the EVIDENCE...

Court records say George Zimmerman had multiple injuries after Trayvon Martin's fatal shooting | Fox News

[Epidemic]

Not the evidence I am looking for. I still want to hear his account and how it stacks up against the evidence.

this is still in keeping with Zimmermans detractors. If George started the fight and got his ass whipped then his injuries were his fault. if trayvon turned on him, and walked back to confrontation zone and assaulted Zimmerman then self defense is reasonable in my opinion.

[Steve R Jones]

Well if ol George had stayed in his car.....

[GroundZero3]

And how does this prove that George was defending himself or Marvin? Again this doesnt say it was from Marvin confronting a strange man following him around the neighborhood or Marvin being the aggressor for no reason

[nickslick74]

You bring up a good point, GZ. Everyone is stuck on Zimmerman having the right to "stand his ground". Guess what, he gave up that right when he pursued Martin. Martin was the one who had the right to "stand his ground", and by the sounds of the injuries, he landed a shot to Z's nose which knocked Zimmerman over.

A broken nose hurts, but killing Martin is not the proper response to a situation he put himself into.

[Epidemic]

A broken nose does not prove that he was in mortal fear for his life.

But bouncing a mans head on the concrete would constitute attempted murder in my book.

As for stand your ground... This is not a stand your ground case. It does not apply in this situation unless zimmerman was hanging back a tasteful distance when Martin turned around closed the distance and began an assault. if that is what happened then Martin is at fault.


All these arguments about if zimmerman had stayed in the car are wonderful but he did not so the next question is did zimmerman confront or did martin confront.

If martin had simply continued walking and not decided to beat up a man for walking behind him 100 feet away this could have been avoided as well.

I would love to see a layout of the crime scene with zimmermans account and all available evidence

I could go either way depending on what the evidence shows. I don't think that following someone at a distance necessarily has to end in a fight.

[Chuckiechan]

Well, a struggle eliminates Murder 2... LOL!

Now the FBI is going to pile on with a 'hate crime'. Now the defense can argue Treyvon attacked him because he was Hispanic. That ought to be hoot!

He'll be acquitted for sure. I don't think there is as much "whitey hatred" in Florida as there is in the media and the rest of "pinhead world"...

If you ever wondered why you always "shoot to kill" in self defense - and if necessary let the perp bleed out, this is why.

There are no witnesses. So far. It's a "he said, he said" and one of them is dead.

So I'll leave the rest to the Techimo Legal Community of Justice... LOL!

[Gomer]

So It looks like Martin was fighting for his life and lost. Eh?

[Bizkitkid2001]

I remember reading an article that said Zimmerman followed Martin, but then lost him. Zimmerman then returned to his vehicle. Soon after Martin showed up at Zimmerman's vehicle, and that is when the confrontation started.

Does anyone know anything more about this? If that is the case, wouldn't Martin coming back to Zimmerman's truck show that Zimmerman was no longer pursuing Martin when the confrontation started?

Also, as the article says the only injuries Martin had were the injuries on his knuckles, which could support Zimmerman's claim that Martin punched and attacked him. If Zimmerman surprised attacked Martin, wouldn't he had been able to at least land one blow that would show up as an injury on Martin?

So far there is not enough evidence to convict Zimmerman that he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Gomer]

I remember reading an article that said Zimmerman followed Martin, but then lost him. Zimmerman then returned to his vehicle. Soon after Martin showed up at Zimmerman's vehicle, and that is when the confrontation started.

Does anyone know anything more about this? If that is the case, wouldn't Martin coming back to Zimmerman's truck show that Zimmerman was no longer pursuing Martin when the confrontation started?

Also, as the article says the only injuries Martin had were the injuries on his knuckles, which could support Zimmerman's claim that Martin punched and attacked him. If Zimmerman surprised attacked Martin, wouldn't he had been able to at least land one blow that would show up as an injury on Martin?

So far there is not enough evidence to convict Zimmerman that he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

You or what you remember was very wrong.

Per the police transcript, Martin took of running and Zimmerman left he vehicle and ran after him. The confrontation took place well away from the road in the common backlot area shared by two rows of condominiums.

[nickslick74]

A broken nose does not prove that he was in mortal fear for his life.

But bouncing a mans head on the concrete would constitute attempted murder in my book.

As for stand your ground... This is not a stand your ground case. It does not apply in this situation unless zimmerman was hanging back a tasteful distance when Martin turned around closed the distance and began an assault. if that is what happened then Martin is at fault.


All these arguments about if zimmerman had stayed in the car are wonderful but he did not so the next question is did zimmerman confront or did martin confront.

If martin had simply continued walking and not decided to beat up a man for walking behind him 100 feet away this could have been avoided as well.

I would love to see a layout of the crime scene with zimmermans account and all available evidence

I could go either way depending on what the evidence shows. I don't think that following someone at a distance necessarily has to end in a fight.

Zimmermans defense team is making it a SYG case.

Also, the head wounds pictured are hardly serious, they were barely bleeding, and certainly not indicitive of having his head reapeatedly beaten against the ground. What it appears to have happened is he got punched in the nose and fell and hit his head.

I've been wacked in the head before and bled a heck of a lot more than he did and at no point did I fear for my life.

[Epidemic]

i believe that zimmerman claims he lost Martin, and was returning to his truck. Not that he had returned to his truck.

But other supposed facts have been blown out of the water. there was tales of Martins mortician saying that he had no cuts or bruises on his knuckles and the media of course reported that.

media lies so far in an attempt to convict Zimmerman in the media:

1) Presented images of zimmerman that made him look like a thug

2) Presented images of Trayvon that made him look like a 12 year old angel

3) presented Zimmerman as 250 pound aggressor against 110 pound child.

4) claimed that Zimmerman had no injuries

5) Claimed that Trayvon's knuckles were clean and untouched.

6) Fabricated a racial slur from what would appear to be an EVP analysis of an unintelligible part 911 tape

7) NBC edited 911 tapes again to try and make Zimmerman look racist. By selectively combining two comments and leaving out 2 seconds of dialog that completely change the comments.

8) ...


Well we will have to wait to find out the next lie or omission.

[Steve R Jones]

Epi - even you have a reasonable expectation to be able to walk down the street in a safe manor without being followed, confronted, harrased etc..... Anyone that follows, confronts or harrases you for no apparent cause is in the wrong.

AND, you shouldn't be killed by that person... Should you?

[Chuckiechan]

And Epi, it's the media's job now to just "cut and paste" what ever comes across their desk and call it their own...

[Epidemic]

Epi - even you have a reasonable expectation to be able to walk down the street in a safe manor without being followed, confronted, harrased etc..... Anyone that follows, confronts or harrases you for no apparent cause is in the wrong.

AND, you shouldn't be killed by that person... Should you?

I feel i should be able to walk with out being followed??? What law prevents me from being followed? If a PI follows me do I have the right to beat him to death?

If a neighborhood watch captain follows me do I have the right to beat him to death?

Depending on how the situation unfolded is everything. just being followed does not give me the right to beat someone up.



Before I would have attacked Zimmerman, he would have to had pushed the situation pretty far. I would probably have needed him to come within 5 feet of me and or contact with me before I would have fought him.

Simply following me is no excuse for me to attack you. It raises the alert status but is not an excuse to attack.

[Epidemic]

And Epi, it's the media's job now to just "cut and paste" what ever comes across their desk and call it their own...

You know that would be nice if they only did that. In this case they picked and chose what came across their desk and cut and pasted a narrative.

[tony_j15]

Epi, if you spent as much time actually considering the known facts instead of harping on what "the media" has done and going off on hypothetical tangents about what "could have happened" that are predominantly baseless, you'd be better off.

[Chuckiechan]

Actually the "known" facts have all come from the media. In fact, I'm beginning to wonder if the DA got her facts from the media, also!

[Bizkitkid2001]

Epi, if you spent as much time actually considering the known facts instead of harping on what "the media" has done and going off on hypothetical tangents about what "could have happened" that are predominantly baseless, you'd be better off.

What are the known facts you speak of?

[Gomer]

What are the known facts you speak of?

So here in IMO land, here again is what we know about the situation.

• Per Martin's friend statement, we know that Zimmerman was behaving in a fashion that made Martin uncomfortable and the he tried to walk fast and/or run away.
• Per the 911 call we know that Zimmerman said Martin had his hand in his waistband. I can't say what Zimmerman was thinking, but I think that most of us... upon seeing a suspicious person with their hand in their waistband would probably be concerned they were carrying a weapon.
• Per the 911 call, we know that Zimmerman had already, in his mind, convicted Martin of some wrongdoing "These assholes. They always get away."
• Per the 911 call and Martin's call, we know that Martin attempted to run from Zimmerman. We know from Martin's family, and what was found on Martin's dead body that he was not carrying burglary tools or a weapon. We know that he was running an errand and walking in the neighborhood in which he was staying.
• Per the 911 call we know that Zimmerman left his vehicle and pursued Martin referring to him as a fucking punk. We know that the police instructed him he did not have to do that, to which Zimmerman replied in the affirmative.
• We know per the statements of the police representative who instructed him specifically, that Zimmerman had been previously advised that he was not to pursue people he suspected of being criminals.

  Dorival stated she gave a warning in regard to vigilante behavior at that meeting: "I said, 'If it's someone you don't recognize, call us. We'll figure it out. Observe from a safe location.' There's even a slide about not being vigilante police. I don't know how many more times I can repeat it."[42]

• We know per the statements of multiple witnesses, that there was a fight. And that there are conflicting statements regarding who had the upper hand. (Ask yourself, does this matter if Zimmerman was the aggressor?).
• We do not know who ultimately started the fight. We have Zimmerman's statement that he was attacked. And Martin's friends statement that Martin was scared and trying to get away when he was confronted by Zimmerman.

It is clear that Zimmerman was the aggressor (he chased Martin, not the other way around) and initiated the entire series of events. In my opinion, it is safe to assume that he viewed Martin someone who had committed a crime and was trying to get away (fucking punk assholes always get away).
Here in IMO land, when formulating an opinion of what may have happened, we can assess the character and histories of the individuals involved. Again, Zimmerman has a history that includes:

• Losing his job as a bouncer for overly-aggressive behavior
• Domestic violence resulting in a restraining order
• Road rage
• Charges of assaulting a police officer

And Martin was 17 year old walking home with some skittles for his little brother.

I have a tough time making the leap from Zimmerman (especially with his apparent history of aggression, violence, and assault) going from the aggressor and chasing Martin to somehow becoming the victim of a brutal assault by a 17 year old kid carrying some skittles home for his brother in his own neighborhood after previously trying to run away from said victim.

Zimmerman showed the he felt compelled to apprehend Martin for the express reason that he didn't like the way he looked. (fucking punk assholes always get away, chased after him). Martin showed he felt threatened by and compelled to get away from Zimmerman (he ran from him). I'm sorry, but I can't get from point A to point outlandish where Martin would feel compelled to assault and murder Zimmerman by bashing his head into the concrete repeatedly.



TRANSCRIPT:

[My emphasis]
Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse…

Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse, do you know what the—he's near the
clubhouse right now?

Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

Dispatcher: OK.

Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?

Zimmerman: He's got button on his shirt, late teens.

Dispatcher: Late teens ok.Zimmerman: Somethings wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is.

Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything ok

Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?

Dispatcher: Yeah we've got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.

Zimmerman: Okay. These assholes they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse.

Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?

Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left…uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left.Shit he's running.

Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

2:14 SOUND OF DOOR OPEN CHIME, DOOR SLAMMING

Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

Zimmerman: The back entrance…fucking [unintelligible]

2:21 WIND IN PHONE, HEAVY BREATHING

Dispatcher: Are you following him?

Zimmerman: Yeah

Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

Zimmerman: Ok

Dispatcher: Alright sir what is your name?

Zimmerman: George…He ran.

Dispatcher: Alright George what's your last name?

Zimmerman: Zimmerman

Dispatcher: And George what's the phone number you're calling from?

Zimmerman: [redacted]

Dispatcher: Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?

Zimmerman: Alright, where you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that’s my truck...[unintelligible]

Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?

Zimmerman: I don’t know, it’s a cut through so I don’t know the address.

Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area?

Zimmerman: Yeah, I...[unintelligible]

Dispatcher: What’s your apartment number?

Zimmerman: It’s a home it’s 1950, oh crap I don’t want to give it all out, I don’t know where this kid is.

Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?

Zimmerman: Yeah that’s fine.

Dispatcher: Alright George, I’ll let them know to meet you around there okay?

Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at?

Here's a layout of the neighborhood: