Preying on the Poor

[Chuckiechan]

Preying on the Poor | The Nation

It’s not just the private sector that’s preying on the poor. Local governments are discovering that they can partially make up for declining tax revenues through fines, fees and other costs imposed on indigent defendants, often for crimes no more dastardly than driving with a suspended license. And if that seems like an inefficient way to make money, given the high cost of locking people up, a growing number of jurisdictions have taken to charging defendants for their court costs and even the price of occupying a jail cell.

The poster case for government persecution of the down-and-out would have to be Edwina Nowlin, a homeless Michigan woman who was jailed in 2009 for failing to pay $104 a month to cover the room-and-board charges for her 16-year-old son’s incarceration. When she received a back paycheck, she thought it would allow her to pay for her son’s jail stay. Instead, it was confiscated and applied to the cost of her own incarceration.

In California a $35.00 ticket can be boosted to > $ 400.00 with BS fees and charges. It has gotten out of hand.

I do think traffic fines are getting out of hand.

And FYI, I have not gotten a ticket in 20 years, so I'm not just being bitter! ... knock on wood.

[Gomer]

Preying on the Poor | The Nation



In California a $35.00 ticket can be boosted to > $ 400.00 with BS fees and charges. It has gotten out of hand.

I do think traffic fines are getting out of hand.

And FYI, I have not gotten a ticket in 20 years, so I'm not just being bitter! ... knock on wood.

Can you provide a line item breakdown of the charges and how they are incurred that make a $35 ticket a $400?

[Chuckiechan]

It pretty hard to dig out unless you get one yourself.

Here are the base fines:

California Traffic Ticket Fines – Effective 01/06/2011

California Traffic Penalties Skyrocket

Just for example, these fees can be added on to base fines for traffic violations in Los Angeles County, California:

$49 imposed by all courts under Vehicle Code Section 42007.1
$20 paid by all persons convicted of a traffic offense for "Court Security Fee".
$35 for court construction or renovation
$4 for emergency medical air transport services
$10 state penalty required by PC 1464
$5 state court construction penalty required by GC 70372(a)
$2 for every $10 of base fine to assist crime labs in processing DNA samples.
$35 Fee charged by the traffic violator school (it can be more)
$1 for call boxes

Los Angeles courts will also tack on another $15 to fund "Court Assistance Programs". And all this is on top of the basic fine for each violation!

I'm sure you can dig deeper than I can. Go for it. The fees are not out there for citizens to link too, and they vary county by county, city by city.

[Theophylact]

I have to say, driving with a suspended license isn't a trivial matter. It often means you really shouldn't be driving.

[pickel]

I have to say, driving with a suspended license isn't a trivial matter. It often means you really shouldn't be driving.

A good many of the people driving WITH driving licenses NEED a retest or suspension. Now that isn't a REAL trivial matter !!!!!!!!!!!!!!I believe ANYONE convicted of a serious moving violation should have to take the written AND driving tests as part of their sentence !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Three Strike rule Also !!!

[Chuckiechan]

Typically what happens, especially to young drivers is they get speeding ticket, don't know about or don't complete traffic school, and could pay the $ 125.00 fine, but can't come up with the rest of the fees and charges, so the court pulls their license.

You'd be amazed how many 20 somethings in the blue collar workforce are driving two and from work with no license.

And Theo, it depends on why it's pulled - DUI's, geriatric, etc. should not be driving. But most people are just fine with or without a license. It's only a piece of paper. If you were a good driver before you "fell out of grace" with the courthouse, you are probably still a good driver with no license.

[no1_vern]

Actually, I think the CAR should be taken away from them (instead of the license) until all fines have been paid. That would also solve the "20 somethings" driving to and from work without a license. I bet those people in "Kali land" would fix the problem quickly IF it inconvenienced them enough.

[Theophylact]

A good many of the people driving WITH driving licenses NEED a retest or suspension.

Tru dat.

[brandon184]

Typically what happens, especially to young drivers is they get speeding ticket, don't know about or don't complete traffic school, and could pay the $ 125.00 fine, but can't come up with the rest of the fees and charges, so the court pulls their license.

You'd be amazed how many 20 somethings in the blue collar workforce are driving two and from work with no license.

And Theo, it depends on why it's pulled - DUI's, geriatric, etc. should not be driving. But most people are just fine with or without a license. It's only a piece of paper. If you were a good driver before you "fell out of grace" with the courthouse, you are probably still a good driver with no license.

The point is not whether or not you are a good driver. Having the license suspended is supposed to be a deterrent to committing the crime in the first place.

I am having a lot of trouble reconciling your comments above with comments you've made, repeatedly, in the past about young folks today having no respect for authority.

I see a lot of very reckless young drivers out there and as far as I'm concerned, the only reason they haven't wised up is that they haven't been stuck with a ticket that "stings" enough. Tickets here for driving while talking on your phone are $280, though I still see people doing it routinely, so obviously that fine isn't high enough. The local police department was recently "live tweeting" about traffic tickets they were giving out in a school zone and I was shocked at how low some of the tickets they were giving out were, given how recklessly fast some of the offenders were driving.

I would think those with lower incomes would just be a lot more careful on the road. Personally, my pocketbook is top of mind when managing my speed to ensure that I am not driving too fast, making errors, or parking in an illegal spot. The last thing I want to add to my monthly expenses is a traffic ticket.

[Gomer]

It pretty hard to dig out unless you get one yourself.

Here are the base fines:

California Traffic Ticket Fines – Effective 01/06/2011

California Traffic Penalties Skyrocket



I'm sure you can dig deeper than I can. Go for it. The fees are not out there for citizens to link too, and they vary county by county, city by city.

Yeah... so where is this $35 ticket that turns into a $400 ticket?

[Chuckiechan]

It's in California.

Obviously, you don't want to read the article, and would rather tweak over my example. I found it, so can you.

[Toadman]

http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/F...12-JC-BAIL.pdf Read it until your retinas burn.

Notice it's called "bail" now for traffic infractions and not "fines".

[Chuckiechan]

Cool! Thanks for that!

[Gomer]

It's in California.

Obviously, you don't want to read the article, and would rather tweak over my example. I found it, so can you.

Even with Toad's info, I don't see a $35 ticket turning into a $400 ticket. You really do just make shit up as you go along.

As for your article... it speaks mostly to the unfair effect that this has on the poor. Are you in favor of making the fees/penalties proportional to your income?

[pickel]

You really do just make shit up as you go along.

ROTF

After a Crappy day, I needed a good laugh.

[Toadman]

Even with Toad's info, I don't see a $35 ticket turning into a $400 ticket. You really do just make shit up as you go along. As for your article... it speaks mostly to the unfair effect that this has on the poor. Are you in favor of making the fees/penalties proportional to your income?

I just linked to the actual January 2012 bill. How many more facts do you need to check to grasp how f'd California is? This is reality. The state is broke and milking what ever is possibly left to support un-sustainable social programs.

Actual fines per California Vehicle Code haven't changed much in a few years. "Penalty Assessment surcharges" have, and are indiscriminate of income.

You fart in public it's an "Odiferous Assault" misdemeanor.

[Gomer]

I just linked to the actual January 2012 bill. How many more facts do you need to check to grasp how f'd California is? This is reality. The state is broke like Michigan and milking what ever is possibly left. Actual fines per California Vehicle Code haven't changed much in a few years. "Penalty Assessment surcharges" have, and are indiscriminate of income.

You fart in public it's an "Odiferous Assault" misdemeanor.

If chuck's story is bad enough it can stand on its own, it shouldn't need embellishment.

[Toadman]

Sorry. I threw a little personal hyperbole in there. Not supporting Chuck. Supporting reality and a topic Californians understand.

But if "embellish with relish" suits your needs to nullify the truth then so be it.
Can you comment on-topic and stick to your fact-checking prowess?

[Chuckiechan]

If chuck's story is bad enough it can stand on its own, it shouldn't need embellishment.

And the last thing it needs is Gomers thread hyjack.

When you buy sheets, do you count the threads? Probably. Do you count the screws in a package? Probably. Do you weigh your steak at a restaurant? You have a sickness. Have you measured your wife's boobs while you weighed her to make sure she's telling you the truth? She probably lets you because you aren't worth arguing with!

Go find someone's else's threads to hijack. It seems when you are in, everyone else is out. You just aren't worth the energy to get in an argument about nothing. I pulled the number out of the internet, forgetting that there is always an asshole who wants exacting proof.

People like you make a site like this "un fun". Please put me on ignore and make us both happy.

[nickslick74]

Preying on the Poor | The Nation



In California a $35.00 ticket can be boosted to > $ 400.00 with BS fees and charges. It has gotten out of hand.

Nope. Check page 74 of the document Toadman provided. $234 != $400.

I find it funny that you rag on Gomer, even though you're worse when someone disagrees with you or calls you out. As soon as someone proves your point is in error, they become an "asshole" and a "thread hijacker", even though most of the time they're right.