$10-11 an hour?? Hm, seems a bit high . . .

[no1_vern]

These Men Died For Your 3G Signal (And A Paycheck)
By Laura Northrup on May 23, 2012 11:30 AM

In the last few years of the aughts, while many of us privileged jerks were whining about how our iPhones kept dropping calls, and the national mobile network couldn't handle the call volume generated by our data-slurping smartphones, a hidden army of workers were there for us, risking their lives so that we could download podcasts on the bus. These dudes (they're all dudes) scale towers to fix and upgrade equipment, working for subcontractors and receiving relatively low pay of $10-$11 per hour. And some of them fall and die.

Cell Tower Deaths | FRONTLINE | PBS

The most dangerous job in America: Keeping iPhones connected The Register

he head of the US Occupational Safety and Health Administration said in 2008 that climbing towers was the most dangerous job in America, for which those involved receive around $10 an hour. But more importantly, the investigation revealed, they're routinely required to break safety regulations in order to meet unrealistic deadlines which are passed down through chains of contractors – ensuring that the network operator is well clear of any responsibility or liability. That includes working at night to avoid disrupting customers, and free-climbing across towers to save time.

NO women in their ranks? How misogynistic of them.

[Epidemic]

ensuring that the network operator is well clear of any responsibility or liability

I find this a little one sided. I work for a network operator so I might be biased. Butttt!!! I feel this puts blame on network operators through enuendo that is somewhat unfair.

What should the network operators do use employees to climb towers or trained contractors who specialize in tower climbing?

Should we also hire mechanics to maintain our vehicle pool of cars? You contract special projects. especially ones like tower work which is piece meal work that randomly increases and decreases. It would be insane to employ your own tower crews.


As for the un-realistic goals and targets??? personally we hire a crew to do a job. They determine the manpower.

On average a few hours on a pole costs us 1,000 dollars. I wager a good portion of that goes to the liability insurance of 5 million dollars we require the contractor to carry. The usual crew is 2 people for a typical antenna swap out and takes 3 to 6 hours.

[MTAtech]

$10-11 is below the minimum wage had the MW kept up with inflation.

[Epidemic]

I can't speak for the industry but the climbers I have talked to typically seem to get paid 18 to 20 dollars per hour.

which is in keeping with this

Site.

[SoloCamo]

I can't speak for the industry but the climbers I have talked to typically seem to get paid 18 to 20 dollars per hour.

which is in keeping with this

Site.

Same - most I've run into get paid around 20 starting, or so i'm told.

[tony_j15]

I find this a little one sided. I work for a network operator so I might be biased. Butttt!!! I feel this puts blame on network operators through enuendo that is somewhat unfair.

It's not unfair at all. It is no different than a chocolate company sub-contracting child labor in Africa or coffee companies contracting virtual slave labor in South America, or jewelers purchasing diamonds sub-contracted and passed through genocidal regimes, or IKEA using east-german political prisoners to build couches in the eighties.
The companies all have the choice of sub-contractors, as well as imposing rules and deadlines that the subs must follow to get the contracts.

[Epidemic]

is 20 dollars an hour an unfair wage for climbing a tower? Akin to child labor?

Dude you have some really strange views on the world. I think you are on the JP SJ fast track to insainity

Unskilled labor making a decent wage is morally wrong/criminal behavior?


What do you propose the cellular provider do to improve this situation? Should we pay more to tempt more people into the industry? Thereby eliminating unskilled laborers from the pool.

I mean am I gonna take some 8 grader drop out hick if I am paying enough for college grad to be take the position?

BTW it is not the most dangerous job in america

1. Logger

2. Pilot

3. Fisher

4. Iron/Steel Worker (tower climbers fall in here)

5. Garbage Collector

6. Farmer/Rancher

7. Roofer

8. Electrical Power Installer/Repairer

9. Sales, Delivery, and Other Truck Driver

10. Taxi Driver/Chauffeur

[tony_j15]

wage rate =/= labor laws.

It doesn't matter if you pay them a million dollars an hour. All the cases I have brought forward involve ethical concerns and labor law infractions (IOW, illegal activity).

Get it now?

[Epidemic]

It's not unfair at all. It is no different than a chocolate company sub-contracting child labor in Africa or coffee companies contracting virtual slave labor in South America, or jewelers purchasing diamonds sub-contracted and passed through genocidal regimes, or IKEA using east-german political prisoners to build couches in the eighties.
The companies all have the choice of sub-contractors, as well as imposing rules and deadlines that the subs must follow to get the contracts.

wage rate =/= labor laws.

It doesn't matter if you pay them a million dollars an hour. All the cases I have brought forward involve ethical concerns and labor law infractions (IOW, illegal activity).

Get it now?
May 24th, 2012 01:10 PM

Where did you mention labor laws in your post. You simply said you disagreed with the fact that the article was unfair to the wireless operators. Then you went off on some tangent about genocide and child labor. You did not mention labor laws nor did you explain how the cellular operators should be held to account for hiring sub contractors.

[tony_j15]

I'm sorry that I didn't make the link more clear. But you do see that all these situations involve unfair and unethical labor practices now, yes? I can't proceed without that fact being recognized.

[Epidemic]

I don't see the relationship between unfair labor practices and cell phone companies using contractors to accomplish a task.

[tony_j15]

*facepalm*

Did you read what vern posted? The important parts are in bold, underlined, and red. This is not difficult, dude.

[Epidemic]

Face palm indeed, I am saying that the highlighted text is unfairly implicating cellular operators in the problem. You went off on a tangent about unfair genocide...

you have not expressed how verizon should change their practices in order to not be genocidal. Verizon may request a deadline but who is to say it is an unreal deadline. You contract them to do a job and they are responsible for providing the resources.

[brandon184]

For those who bothered to read any of the links above, one of them linked to an interesting Q&A with a climber who is now a safety advocate: I am a former cell tower worker who risked my life for your cell signal : IAmA

Interesting:

The tallest tower I climbed was 1100' in Buffalo, NY. We (a co-worker and I) changed out the lighting units at two units every 300' that weighed roughly 70lbs and were about the size of a car tire (that's a close description of the bulk). We climbed them up to each level with the units hanging from our harnesses. This is one example of many. It's rare to have an elevator on towers. Many climbers don't trust them much either. Some towers are in excess of 2,000'.

On "close calls":

There are many close calls for climbers. The biggest learning tool for climbers are the things they didn't prepare for. Prior to 1995, there was no 100% Tie-Off. So slips, missed grabs, and leaning back in the belt forgetting to connect was fairly common. From what I hear, it still happens today. You can train, read, and talk safety until the cows come home. Nothing sharpens one's skills more than surviving a close call. It's dangerous because there are always things lurking out there that one may not expect.

I started towers in 1992, before 100% Tie-Off. Free-climbing wasn't termed until after the OSHA directive in 1994. That was how I learned how to climb. After 1995, the entire industry had to be fitted to comply with regulations. Anyone free-climbing could be cited. That's why we feel this is an issue. Many climbers free-climb in order to keep up the pace of work. No one who wants to be in business will admit it. But most do indeed free-climb from my own research going back to 1994.

[Epidemic]

Interesting but first off I still don't see anything that damn cell phone operators.

[brandon184]

Interesting but first off I still don't see anything that damn cell phone operators.

The fact that there are deaths at all is what "damns" them, regardless of whether or not they are at fault. Perception matters!

From what I can tell, deaths should be virtually non-existent, outside of freak accidents, if safety precautions are followed properly. There is no excuse for operators to not require that safety precautions in use by their subs go above and beyond what is required by law, and there is no excuse for operators to not restrict or terminate business arrangements with subs who put their workers' lives at risk in order to meet their contractual obligations.

[no1_vern]

For those who bothered to read any of the links above, one of them linked to an interesting Q&A with a climber who is now a safety advocate: I am a former cell tower worker who risked my life for your cell signal : IAmA

Interesting:



On "close calls":

Someone read my links?? :shock: :horror:

[Epidemic]

The fact that there are deaths at all is what "damns" them, regardless of whether or not they are at fault. Perception matters!

From what I can tell, deaths should be virtually non-existent, outside of freak accidents, if safety precautions are followed properly. There is no excuse for operators to not require that safety precautions in use by their subs go above and beyond what is required by law, and there is no excuse for operators to not restrict or terminate business arrangements with subs who put their workers' lives at risk in order to meet their contractual obligations.

That is all well and good but should I not hire a doctor for my company because us uses the 2008 Siemans CT Scan device known to have a fire risk?

When I hire a professional to do my work that is certified, whether he be a doctor or tower climber. I depend on them to follow the rules. I am not a professional climber, I do not know if they are using the latest and greatest harness and Fall break and hard hats. it is not my job nor is it my field to know if the lawn mowing service is wearing regulation foot wear approved for the lawnclipper 4,000.

Do you think it reasonable for me to have a person on site to see if I see any infractions for all the contractors I hire?


What you propose is preposterous impractical and frankly stupid. I am all for the climbing industry and certification process to be stronger but when I hire a professional they are the experts in safety with regard to their field. When I have my tires changed at PEP boys do I make sure they use a torque wrench on my wheels and brakes? Do I check my doctors analysis of my x-ray? I might go for a second opinion. But that does not apply to climbers.

With only 70 deaths per year I think you might be hard pressed to find the mistakes as a layperson unless you watched each job to completion while climbing along side the tower guys.

[Epidemic]

Someone read my links?? :shock: :horror:

I scanned them and they appeared to say things used to be horrible. What did you note that was current practices that were dangerous.


I am all for tougher standards for climbers but again I don't see where it is the cell phone operator who shoulders any of the guilt in this process. there are dangerous jobs that need to be done.

Trash collectors, people tasked with picking up the waste from our extravagent lifestyles risk their lives. Should I follow them and verify their not putting their hand in the way of the hydraulic rams?

[SoloCamo]

With only 70 deaths per year I think you might be hard pressed to find the mistakes as a layperson unless you watched each job to completion while climbing along side the tower guys.

That's an outrageously high number of lives taken in such a specialized field thats primary focus should be on worker safety.