5-4 Decision Affirms Obamacare

[Whir]

YOU HAVE A CHILD?!?!?!


Sorry, OT, but... WHAT?!

[brandon184]

Sorry, I wasn't speaking literally. In Socialist Canada you need to have a Child Rearing License (CRL) in order to have children and I haven't received mine yet.

[Whir]

Hah.

I should really do some more research on this whole thing. Being a poor fool, I'd like to know what I'm going to end up having to deal with.

[Epidemic]

Some of the opinions here are frightening. My perspective:

[B] I have not had to deal with the additional nightmare of worrying about whether or not I am going to be covered for something or how much it is going to cost me.Why is that a bad thing?

Why is that a bad thing???

if you are isolated from the cost you never pay attention to how much the industry is spending you may pay too much.


Maybe it would be better to skip the un-needed diagnostics and just give a $15 anti-biotic after testing for pneumonia the old fashioned way with a stethoscope and a few raps on the chest by old doc baker. Instead you get a $180 Blood workup, $250 dollar chest x-ray + $100 exam. if you don't get better in a week or if you degrade then try more elaborate testing. As a kid growing up they looked at my throat, ears and gave a listen to my chest sometimes even did a culture and then sent me off with a prescription. During the 90's they kept sending me off for X-Ray and Blood work. After which they would give me a scipt or not based upon their findings.

[brandon184]

if you are isolated from the cost you never pay attention to how much the industry is spending you may pay too much.

But we're not paying too much. Canada spends HALF per person on healthcare than the United States does!

Comparison of the health care systems in Canada and the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I don't expect to convince you, even though I think that any rational person could instantly tell you which system is better, all things considered. I'm just saying I'm very grateful for what we have here.

[The Real Bingo]

I can't, for the life of me, think of any other instance where I get taxed for not doing/buying something. And unless someone can give me an example, I can't see where the precedent was for such a decision.

[Theophylact]

In Virginia (and, I assume, some other states) you have to pay an Uninsured Motor Vehicle fee if you opt to drive without liability coverage:

The Virginia Uninsured Motor Vehicle (UMV) fee allows a motor vehicle owner to register an uninsured motor vehicle. At the time of registration, the motor vehicle owner must certify whether the vehicle is insured or uninsured.

If the vehicle is uninsured, the motor vehicle owner is required to pay to DMV a $500 uninsured motor vehicle fee in addition to normal registration fees. Payment of the $500 fee does not provide the motorist with any insurance coverage. If involved in an accident, the uninsured motorist remains personally liable. This fee is valid for twelve months but may be prorated for a shorter amount of time.

Motor vehicle owners who falsely certify that they have insurance and are found by DMV to be uninsured face stiff penalties. In addition to facing suspension of all driver and registration privileges, compliance includes payment of a $500 statutory fee, a $145 reinstatement fee and filing proof of insurance for three years. During the three-year period, insurance companies cooperate with DMV by providing notification if a policy is canceled. This requirement to maintain proof of insurance enables DMV to ensure that these motor vehicle owners maintain liability insurance on their registered vehicles.

[Whir]

I find the comparison to vehicle insurance to be a weak one at best. Driving is not something you are entitled to, it is a privilege and you must pay for that privilege. States do not require you to be insured for your benefit, but for the other dumbasses on the road you might end up hurting.

What we are saying here is that health care is, or at least should be, a right given to all United States citizens. Per Bingo's statement, what other _right_ are we forced to pay for? <- honest question since I have no idea, or at least I can't think of anything simple off-hand.

[tony_j15]

We pay for every single right we have. Think about it.

The only difference is healthcare seems more easy to visualize because it effects everyone directly and there isn't much buffer between the costs and the results.

The First Amendment is payed for by everyone as well. But there's no direct tax for the Supreme Court (for instance) so no one complains about it.

[Whir]

You are more clever than I am. How are we paying for our first amendment rights?

[Taxmancometh]

Map: Where Obamacare would expand Medicaid most | The Ticket - Yahoo! News

[tony_j15]

You are more clever than I am. How are we paying for our first amendment rights?

Like I said, through the Supreme Court for one. For instance, if we didn't pay them to do their job, the Stolen Valor Act would have been upheld and I could go to jail for doing stand-up comedy at a bar and claiming as part of a joke that I had won the Medal of Honor.
Your tax dollars and mine paid for the First Amendment to be upheld. No taxes? No First Amendment. The same goes for every other right in America.

[Whir]

Okay, I see what you mean now. I guess I see it in the opposite, we pay people to deal with other people that do things our constitutional rights don't cover. Things like slander and libel for instance. We automatically get the right to free speech, but as soon as we go overboard, our tax dollars step in and slap us silly.

I shall more deeply cogitate on this.

[The Real Bingo]

So basically the answer is that the right to live in the USA is a taxable offense. Because, essentially, that's what this law is about. You being alive without any other attachments means you have to pay a tax. The simple act of being is taxable. I find that quite preposterous. One can choose not to drive and avoid those taxes for that privilege. Should one have to commit suicide to avoid the taxes levied for the right to life?

[Whir]

I see the point you're trying to make, John, but it doesn't stand. No matter what, we are taxed, so no matter what, if you live and work in the US, you are paying for the privilege of living here. In that case, all OCare is doing is adding another service that is now available via those taxes. In reality, it's no different, from a taxation standpoint, than how we pay for our mail to be delivered to us.


And even if you were to remove yourself from all mail access permanently, your taxes would still pay for the mail other people have delivered. Never use the healthcare your taxes pay for? Amounts to the same thing. No opt-out for either.

[The Real Bingo]

And that would fly if it was a government service. But it's a private sector service for which we are being taxed. It would be like the government collecting a tax to have UPS or FedEX deliver. A true single-payer government-run system would probably have no Constitutional issues because it's government insurance, not private.

[The Real Bingo]

lawl.

[Whir]

And that would fly if it was a government service. But it's a private sector service for which we are being taxed. It would be like the government collecting a tax to have UPS or FedEX deliver. A true single-payer government-run system would probably have no Constitutional issues because it's government insurance, not private.

Fair point.

[Chuckiechan]

This argument would be so much easier if we had full employment, got rid of the illegals and got welfare people off the dole and into jobs.

As it stands now, there are too many people milking the system and there isn't enough money to fund it.

That, in a nut shell is the problem.

I've seen the "welfare Cadillac", and Asians with $ 20K in jewelry hanging off them using EBT cards. We have so many people on it in one form or another, there isn't enough manpower to police it.

I wish Obama would put as much effort into the economy and jobs and welfare and border enforcement as he did with this Obamacare turkey.

[tony_j15]

And that would fly if it was a government service. But it's a private sector service for which we are being taxed. It would be like the government collecting a tax to have UPS or FedEX deliver. A true single-payer government-run system would probably have no Constitutional issues because it's government insurance, not private.

And when the bill was being discussed, it originally had a single-payer component in it. It didn't survive because of Republican opposition.
So you're complaining that you don't like the way things are because of a situation that the conservatives in politics created.

Also, don't make it out like everyone is being taxed. That's a falsehood. The only way a penalty tax is assessed if you refuse to purchase insurance, at which point the IRS is empowered to do....guess what? NOTHING! There is no actual punishment specified in the bill. So the IRS could come knock at your door and politely ask for you to pay, or garnish your paycheck.
But really, how many situations like that are going to come up? Do you know anyone personally who doesn't want to be taken care of if/when they need medical services?

Chuck: the economy is a topic for discussion in its own thread. Let's not go there here.