Read my lips, "no new taxes."

[Whir]

In 2009, Americans paid lowest tax rates in 30 years to federal government - The Washington Post

[tony_j15]

well well well. How about that. Huh. Ain't that something.

sorry, I got nothing.

[Chuckiechan]

It couldn't have to do with jobs lost could it?

Due to the way taxes are calculated, as a percentage, the less money you make the less you pay. Also in a falling economy there are capital losses rather than capital gains. And there are also loss write offs on income taxes. And lost jobs lead to drained 401's, drained, BTW at a loss do to a weak market. And there are bankruptcies where bad debt is written off lowering the tax base.

So yes, the average tax rate fell as Americans prosperity fell.

This is not a trend to brag about unless you are willing to explain why sliding into poverty is a good thing!

[Whir]

So, just to play devil's advocate here, would you be okay with tax increases if your income and security both go up?

[Chuckiechan]

Assuming income - taxes = disposable income... so disposable income and security goes up and do taxes?

Taxes are already quite high, I guess you want them higher in exchange for Obamacare and a guarantee retirement?

Retirement at what percentage of what median income, paid for by whom?

The problem is, the more tax money available the more wasted and misappropriated and the less available for the original program. Central planning is a poor model for efficiency.

[Whir]

I don't remember saying anything about wanting them higher, I was just curious if you held a double standard.

You say taxes are already quite high, but the information in the article clearly shows they at a 30 year low (or were in 09).

I don't disagree with your last statement, but I'm not sure what a feasible alternative would be for a nation as large as we are with the type of government we have. It's like, we can either suffer as Rome did, or we can go socialism or communism. We see how well that's working for China at the moment... Patriarchy, monarchy, oligarchy are all out.

[tony_j15]

Taxes are already quite high, I guess you want them higher in exchange for Obamacare and a guarantee retirement?

I find it ironic that you would state this when the very premise of this thread is the fact that the rates are lower than they have been in 30 years.

So, taxes are "quite high" compared to what?

[Chuckiechan]

So, taxes are "quite high" compared to what?

We have the highest corporate taxes, which are passed on in the price of American products that we can't afford to buy.

And then add federal income tax, state income tax, SSI & SDI, city taxes, utility taxes, sales taxes, fuel taxes, cell phone taxes, cable and satellite taxes, etc. The list goes on and on.

There are way to many government hands in taxpayers pockets. Unless of course you are one of the 48% who pays no taxes and rely on me and my tax paying brothers to support you!

I'll bet the actual tax burned for a two income family of four in California, renting and making $ 90K a year is close to 70%.

[tony_j15]

We have the highest corporate taxes, which are passed on in the price of American products that we can't afford to buy.

Can't afford? Gee, that must be why we're still the top manufacturing company in the world. Also, you are completely overlooking the loophole problem that allows major manufacturers such as GE to get away with having a coporate tax rate that is essentially zero.

And then add federal income tax, state income tax, SSI & SDI, city taxes, utility taxes, sales taxes, fuel taxes, cell phone taxes, cable and satellite taxes, etc. The list goes on and on.

There are way to many government hands in taxpayers pockets. Unless of course you are one of the 48% who pays no taxes and rely on me and my tax paying brothers to support you!

You really think there is 52% of the population who doesn't pay any of those taxes you listed? You really think there is 52% of the population who is living off the dole that "you" provide?

I'll bet the actual tax burned for a two income family of four in California, renting and making $ 90K a year is close to 70%.

Sounds like a nice project for you to work on and figure out.

[Chuckiechan]

Can't afford? Gee, that must be why we're still the top manufacturing company in the world

You are referring to high tech items that businesses buy not Tony and Chuck. Unless you buy auto lathes and x ray machines.. or locomotive engines?

GE pays zero because of the tax laws written by both parties. Since you pay the taxes for them in the price (directly or indirectly) in what you buy, do you want them to pay more?

The 48% pays no federal or state income tax, and gets earned income credits if their income is low and they have dependents. And yes, we send those checks to Mexico, too. We are the world's biggest sucker. But I digress, most of the taxes I describes are not escapable.

And yes, we have a hell of a lot of people "on the dole": And now the new trend is to run out of unemployment insurance and go on disability... which BTW, takes you out of the unemployment figures. Convenient, huh?

[tony_j15]

You are referring to high tech items that businesses buy not Tony and Chuck. Unless you buy auto lathes and x ray machines.. or locomotive engines?

My bike shorts are made in the USA. As are my dishware and glassware sets. My fridge is too. Oh, and my scotch tape.
There is plenty of stuff made by us for us.

GE pays zero because of the tax laws written by both parties. Since you pay the taxes for them in the price (directly or indirectly) in what you buy, do you want them to pay more?

That's an incorrect assumption that the two are directly tied to one another. Considering they pay nothing (more or less) now, it is both unethical and unjust for the practice to continue. If it means a slight rise in price, so be it. But chances are, a lot of the costs would just be absorbed. It is illogical to assume that every price increase to be passed on to consumers. It just doesn't happen.

most of the taxes I describes are not escapable.

We agree.

[Chuckiechan]

But chances are, a lot of the costs would just be absorbed. It is illogical to assume that every price increase to be passed on to consumers.

Don't count on it. You have to hold your margins, or there is no point in making the product. So you raise your price. Simply put: Cost + margin = selling price.

Unless you expect companies to look like the little Indian Food & Liquor store down the road...

[Whir]

So state-owned socialism it is!

[pickel]

We have the highest corporate taxes, which are passed on in the price of American products that we can't afford to buy.

And then add federal income tax, state income tax, SSI & SDI, city taxes, utility taxes, sales taxes, fuel taxes, cell phone taxes, cable and satellite taxes, etc. The list goes on and on.

There are way to many government hands in taxpayers pockets. Unless of course you are one of the 48% who pays no taxes and rely on me and my tax paying brothers to support you!

I'll bet the actual tax burned for a two income family of four in California, renting and making $ 90K a year is close to 70%.

The percentage may be higher. But with all the crooks using loopholes, etc. ,what is the ACTUAL amount of taxes paid ?? Probably less than what my wife and I pay. Chuckie, you can fool some of the people some of all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool anyone here any of the time !!!!

[Whir]

To be fair, I don't believe the article discusses the total amount of taxes paid, but the percentages of income paid.

[pickel]

To be fair, I don't believe the article discusses the total amount of taxes paid, but the percentages of income paid.

But if you haven't paid ANY taxes, doesn't that correlate to the percentage of your income ???
Which is Nothing for both ?????