Playing Chicken With Your Bush Tax Cuts in Jan 2013

**Chuckiechan** · July 16th, 2012, 11:35 AM

Democrats open door to letting taxes rise in 2013 to reset debate with GOP | Fox News

Personally, I'm of two minds. First extract concessions to get them raised to $ 1 million, instead of $250K, in exchange for something else. Basically, play the game and get it off the table and change it later.

Or... let the democrats raise the taxes, and see if the prognosticators of a 2013 return to recession are correct. (I believe they are). I think the economy needs a much harder crash for people to understand the difference in today's America, and the America of the 1980's. We need a revitalization of America's spirit. This "julia" hammock society the democrats built has to be killed one way or the other, and I can't see a better way than a return to more recession until people just can't stand lack of mobility anymore.

As many of you know, I live in California where there is no viable republican party, and the democrats have had free reign to fund their programs. California is the lesson American needs to learn - the easy way or the hard way. My kids are all in good shape, so it's no skin off my ass what happens! LOL

**MTAtech** · July 16th, 2012, 02:40 PM

Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA):

“If we can’t get a good deal, a balanced deal that calls on the wealthy to pay their fair share, then I will absolutely continue this debate into 2013,” Murray plans to say, according to excerpts of the speech provided to The Washington Post. If the tax cuts from the George W. Bush era expire and taxes go up for everyone, the debate will be reset, Murray is expected to say. “Every proposal will be a tax-cut proposal,” according to the excerpts, and Republicans would no longer be “boxed in” by their pledge not to raise taxes.
“If middle-class families start seeing more money coming out of their paychecks next year, are Republicans really going to stand up and fight for new tax cuts for the rich? Are they going to continue opposing the Democrats’ middle-class tax cut once the slate has been wiped clean? I think they know this would be an untenable political position.”

**Chuckiechan** · July 16th, 2012, 03:24 PM

Dude, even the MSM is not going to fall for that ploy!

No one is going to suddenly see their taxes go up and see it as a new day, allowing the debate to shift the democrats into tax cutters on a higher base. That is way too big of a stretch.

What is going to happen, is the election will have chosen who is president, who is in the senate, and who is in the house. She is threatening a "scorched earth" policy if she is part of a lame duck senate changing leadership.

**MTAtech** · July 16th, 2012, 03:35 PM

Any serious proposal to balance the budget requires tax increases. The Democrats propose to raise taxes on the rich while the Republicans use the Orwellian term "broaden the base," which means raise taxes on the bottom 49% -- and propose lowering taxes for the rich also.

Given the choice, America chooses raising taxes on the rich. If it requires playing hardball, so be it.

**Chuckiechan** · July 16th, 2012, 04:40 PM

Republicans want to cut taxes to stimulate business, thereby increasing revenue to the treasury, as well as increasing the number of people receiving paychecks that are also taxes at the local level as well as federal.

Cutting taxes increases economic activity which increases the gross amount of tax dollars flowing into the treasury, as illustrated by the .com boom under Clinton. Every dollar that changes hands in the private sector is taxed in one form or another.

All tax income to the treasury is derived from the private economy.

**pickel** · July 16th, 2012, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckiechan

Republicans want to cut taxes to stimulate business, thereby increasing revenue to the treasury, as well as increasing the number of people receiving paychecks that are also taxes at the local level as well as federal.

Cutting taxes increases economic activity which increases the gross amount of tax dollars flowing into the treasury, as illustrated by the .com boom under Clinton. Every dollar that changes hands in the private sector is taxed in one form or another.

All tax income to the treasury is derived from the private economy.

Audit ALL the businesses in the US and see who is doing a "Romney",,hiding their assets to avoid paying their fair share. Stop politicians from "Insider trading". Force the foreign banks to disclose the hidden accounts of American citizens, etc.
After we do this and see what revenue would come into our coffers , then go after the little guy.
What are YOU hiding Chuckie ???

**The Real Bingo** · July 16th, 2012, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by MTAtech

Any serious proposal to balance the budget requires tax increases. The Democrats propose to raise taxes on the rich while the Republicans use the Orwellian term "broaden the base," which means raise taxes on the bottom 49% -- and propose lowering taxes for the rich also.

You mean making the bottom 49% pay tax. Any tax. A tax > $0. Yeah, the horror.

Chart: Nearly Half of All Americans Don't Pay Income Taxes

What happens when the majority pay no tax? They demand more from those who do. Mob rule, confiscatory tax policy, and an expanded welfare state. No thank you.

**brandon184** · July 16th, 2012, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckiechan

Cutting taxes increases economic activity which increases the gross amount of tax dollars flowing into the treasury, as illustrated by the .com boom under Clinton.

Which tax cuts lead to the .com boom?

**Chuckiechan** · July 17th, 2012, 12:41 AM

You have all missed the point. It is 100% a political game. The money raised will run the government for 5 days, depending on who you listen to.

The point is that the senate democrats, who likely will be the minority party in 2013 are going to refuse to allow the Bush tax cuts to continue unless they get what they want as lame ducks.

How stupid do they think the public is. They already hold congress in the lowest regard of any of our institutions, and they are sick of the politics of "getting nothing done", so now they are going to hold tax relief hostage?

I really prey she goes for it. We are expected to start sliding back into recession in the fourth quarter when Europe's recession gets here.

Personally, I hope she does it. Because that will be a powerful message going into the election. Middle class, your taxes are going up in 2013 "or else", and BTW, we are bringing you another recession... LOL!

**brandon184** · July 17th, 2012, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by brandon184

Which tax cuts lead to the .com boom?

Here, I'l answer the question for you: None.

Top tax rates were higher before and during the "dot com boom" than they are now.

**Chuckiechan** · July 17th, 2012, 11:01 AM

I don't think you understand the .com boom as it related to the treasury. It had little to do with tax rates and everything to do with economic activity.

**brandon184** · July 17th, 2012, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckiechan

I don't think you understand the .com boom as it related to the treasury. It had little to do with tax rates and everything to do with economic activity.

The only thing I'm having trouble understanding is this statement:

Originally Posted by Chuckiechan

Cutting taxes increases economic activity which increases the gross amount of tax dollars flowing into the treasury, as illustrated by the .com boom under Clinton.

Which tax cuts are you referring to there?

**Chuckiechan** · July 17th, 2012, 08:33 PM

Corporate, investment, and personal taxes.

**MTAtech** · July 18th, 2012, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckiechan

You have all missed the point. It is 100% a political game. The money raised will run the government for 5 days, depending on who you listen to.

The point is that the senate democrats, who likely will be the minority party in 2013 are going to refuse to allow the Bush tax cuts to continue unless they get what they want as lame ducks.

How stupid do they think the public is. They already hold congress in the lowest regard of any of our institutions, and they are sick of the politics of "getting nothing done", so now they are going to hold tax relief hostage?

I really prey she goes for it. We are expected to start sliding back into recession in the fourth quarter when Europe's recession gets here.

Personally, I hope she does it. Because that will be a powerful message going into the election. Middle class, your taxes are going up in 2013 "or else", and BTW, we are bringing you another recession... LOL!

This is the strategy:

Democrats Propose Plan to Sidestep Anti-Tax Pledge

The proposal illustrates the lengths lawmakers are going to in an effort to include new federal revenues in a fix for the “fiscal cliff,” the reckoning in January that would come when all Bush-era tax cuts expire and automatic spending cuts to military and domestic programs kick in.

Virtually every Republican in Congress has taken the pledge, pushed by Grover Norquist’s Americans for Tax Reform, never to vote for a tax increase — a pledge both parties see as a serious impediment to a tax compromise. But if tax rates snap back to the levels of the Clinton presidency on Jan. 1, any legislation to reinstate some of those tax cuts — but not all of them — would be considered a tax cut.