Question about public/private property and amendment rights

[Whir]

So I've heard that the theater in Aurora had a no guns inside policy.

I'm currently embroiled in an argument about whether or not they have the right to deny a member of the public their right to carry.

My stance is that it is a private establishment and private establishments can impose any rules they like on people who want to use their services.

The opposite is that since the theater is open to the public, they fall under the purview of federal laws and must allow guns on the premises.


Any input?

[pickel]

I can only speak for Mississippi.

An establishment has the right to restrict the entrance of firearms into their place of business by exhibiting a sign "No Firearms on Premises" , even with a Firearms Permit.
However , a person who has completes a supplemental Firearms Safety course given by a certified instructor can carry a weapon in ALL places except police stations and prisons and a few other places.
I went through the course last December.

[Whir]

Interesting. Thanks for the input.

[Whir]

To clarify, if you have that safety course permit, you can ignore those signs entirely and keep your weapon? Does it have to be concealed or any other ramification?

[Interrupt]

I can only answer as a non-attorney and in the state I'm from (NY) but it's my understanding that a business can, with proper notice, stop individuals from bringing objects in that they would otherwise be entitled to. While I can't cite actual case law at the moment (I don't have access to a legal database off hand), there has been cases in New York where business owners have restricted pen/pocket knives that individuals could carry on premises.

I've often heard of such things being disputed, though. Usually they say that it is their legal right to carry such items in general (in public) so that they should be entitled to carry them wherever they please. To my knowledge (and please don't quote me on this), such actions are not successful.

A business or establishment is allowed to setup their own policies in that fashion. It's extremely popular for clubs and bars to do that. But they must post such regulations in clear view when entering so that - by entering - you consent to agree to the rules set forth by the establishment's owners.

Edit: I don't want to give the wrong opinion - firearms are NOT allowed here period and knives over an inch are not allowed either - pen knives, as mentioned above, are knives that fall within the legal limit. So I don't know if they are allowed or not in states that typically do make allowances for carrying firearms whereby a business restricts it, but just giving how it is here and thinking (reasonably speaking) that it would be similar.

[Whir]

That's is the crux of my argument, mark. Now go find me some proof!

[Interrupt]

Haha, get me back on West Law... my plegal program takes that crap away when we graduate. (*Searching free sources online to see if I can find you anything*)

[Interrupt]

Colorado allows a person to carry a firearm in a vehicle, loaded or unloaded, if its use is for lawful protection of such person or another's person or property. [C.R.S. 18-12-105(2)] Colorado law also allows a person to possess a handgun in a dwelling, place of business, or automobile. However, you cannot carry the weapon concealed on or about your person while transporting it into your home, business, hotel room, etc. Local jurisdictions may not enact laws that restrict a person's ability to travel with a weapon. [C.R.S. 18-12-105.6] The Act permits the nationwide carrying of concealed handguns by qualified current and retired law enforcement officers and amends the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Pub. L. 90-618, 82 Stat. 1213) to exempt qualified current and retired law enforcement officers from state and local laws prohibiting the carry of concealed firearms.

CO State Gun Laws: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf

“Handgunlaw.us highly recommends that you not enter a place that is posted "No Firearms" no matter what the state laws read/mean on signage. We recommend you print out the No Guns = No Money Cards and give one to the owner of the establishment that has the signage." As responsible gun owners and upholders of the 2nd Amendment we should also honor the rights of property owners to control their own property even if we disagree with them.”
“No Firearm” signs in Colorado have no force of law unless they are posted on property that is specifically mentioned in State Law as being off limits to those with a Permit/License to Carry.

You know what? NY is NY but I think in CO the law is the deciding factor. If something is not concretely spelled out by law, apparently in CO, there can be no restriction there from a legal standpoint.

Why isn't it actually written in the law like that? It could be that there is either case law supporting the notion that made up signs running contrary to the law carry no legal weight or that there is very little case law on the matter so there was no need to specifically write it into the law. But I'd trust that source, it makes sense.

And I think that's about as concrete as you'll get on the matter.

There you go.

[pickel]

To clarify, if you have that safety course permit, you can ignore those signs entirely and keep your weapon? Does it have to be concealed or any other ramification?

Yes. This is for "Concealed carry" Only.

I cannot understand why anyone would want to carry a firearm exposed and have it taken away by group of gang bangers. Advertising you're carrying seems quite hazardous to me.


The first Law of carrying your firearm is protect it and avoid having it taken away. Especially when you think ,you might be the one who gets shot !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Whir]

Thanks mark!

Also, yes, pickel, for definitely.

[pickel]

Also, Mississippi has carry permit Reciprocity with Colorado .


State Reciprocation

Alabama | Alaska | Arizona | Arkansas | Colorado | Florida | Georgia | Indiana | Kentucky | Louisiana | Michigan | Minnesota | Missouri | Montana | New Hampshire | North Carolina |Oklahoma | South Dakota | Tennessee | Texas | Utah | Virginia | Washington | West Virginia | Wyoming


Mississippi Concealed Carry Permit Information

[Taxmancometh]

If theaters can ban hand guns they also need to ban the stupid cell phones!

In Colorado we also have the make my day law. Which means I can blow your head apart if you enter my home. I love Colorado!

[Interrupt]

Yes. This is for "Concealed carry" Only.

I cannot understand why anyone would want to carry a firearm exposed and have it taken away by group of gang bangers. Advertising you're carrying seems quite hazardous to me.


The first Law of carrying your firearm is protect it and avoid having it taken away. Especially when you think ,you might be the one who gets shot !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Similarly I know people in TX that won't carry for that very reason. They support the Right to Bear Arms, own firearms but won't carry because they run the risk of having it taken. Plus I'm of the mindset that when you carry a weapon you escalate any situation by the sheer virtue of having the weapon.

Not necessarily because you yourself are dangerous but because others may perceive you to be a danger in a given circumstance (others that may or may not have a weapon as well).

Edit: And of course one carrying a weapon can actually be dangerous.

[Whir]

Like pickel says, it's always best to carry concealed. That way any situation that doesn't warrant the firearm will be blissfully ignorant of its existence.

[Interrupt]

Yup... I think the knife law here in NY is dumb though because the cops I've met use the dumbest means of checking the size of the blade. Four fingers, no thumb, flat against the blade. Blade is higher than your fingers combined? Bad. Except nature tells us that people's fingers are sometimes bigger than others.

Apparently the local police around here hasn't read that memo yet.

[Whir]

I believe it's 3.5" in Michigan or under 4" or something like that. I need a CCW to carry the knife I want to be able to carry, even if it's in a sheath on my belt fully exposed.

[pickel]

Yup... I think the knife law here in NY is dumb though because the cops I've met use the dumbest means of checking the size of the blade. Four fingers, no thumb, flat against the blade. Blade is higher than your fingers combined? Bad. Except nature tells us that people's fingers are sometimes bigger than others.

Apparently the local police around here hasn't read that memo yet.

That's one of my main reasons for NOT going back to NYC. With all the BS stop & search , I wouldn't last a day back in Queens. BTW, there's only ONE finger I'd give those corrupt cops back in NY.

[Taxmancometh]

[Interrupt]

LOL!!! Unless you're a a coke fiend with an Uzi you don't have anything to worry about! Did you have a bad experience, Pickel?

(I hope it isn't because you walked up to a random cop and called yourself "Pickel from TIMO" because, no offense, I'd think there was something wrong with you too, lol! "Stop, drop and roll mutha..." or is that for fires?)

[Theophylact]

That's one of my main reasons for NOT going back to NYC. With all the BS stop & search , I wouldn't last a day back in Queens.

Are you non-Hispanic white? If so, no problem, buddy.