August 13th, 2012, 08:42 AM #61
Change I can believe in. We're still at war and probably poised for another one (or two), Gitmo is still open, the economic problems didn't waver under the presence of such an immaculate man named Obama, and we expect the man who promised change four years ago and didn't deliver to somehow figure it out in the next four years?
Yes, DADT has been repealed and I commend him for that. Yes, we are out of Iraq. Yes Bin Laden is dead. And some wonderful monstrosity of a health care bill was passed, the terms of which we won't realize for some years. He has some accomplishments, but he seems to be out of his league and his ideology does not resonate with many. To be honest, I think his electoral success is due to the fact that the other side can't put up anyone much better than a trained monkey.
August 13th, 2012, 10:37 AM #62Originally Posted by Brandon
Either way, I'm not all that affected. I only worry about the opportunities for my kids and grand kids. Many people refuse to look into the future and wonder what is going to happen when we run out of money. All the figures are out there. All you have to do is read them and either believe them or don't believe them - that choice is yours.Obama: The rich have the Federal Reserve and the poor have Harry Reid... LOL. Life really is unfair!
August 13th, 2012, 10:43 AM #63
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Good job, friend-of-friends!
August 13th, 2012, 10:57 AM #64
And Syria, that counts as funding a conflict? We're providing non-military aid, and not doing anything else, there is of course the possibility of secret provisioning of arms, but even if that were the case, there's simply no comparison between that and what we did in Iraq. That's really a pretty disingenuous argument.
Both parties are to blame! Obama made all these promises that he hasn't been able to keep and I said it before he was elected, you guys were buying the BS hook, line, and sinker. I knew he couldn't fix all the crap Bush Jr. caused, in one, two, or even 3 terms. Well, he's put the country in an even worse mess and the end is even further out of sight.
Now, you think he'll fix a majority of them when he's a lame duck President??? Obama would need full control of both the house and senate to push anything through . . . and it ain't going to happen. He might get re-elected, but he's done before ever serving a second term. (Which makes me wonder what he promised the Russians and others, that he would do for them during his second term.)
I'm very worried about what R&R are promising as well. I highly doubt he's going to do away with Medicare or SS. Even his Republican supporters would rise up against him if he tried. Yeah, you Dumborats and your fear mongering is unbelievable! Regardless, R&R making the promises they're making, are just as un-attainable as Obama's.
Just my thoughts.
Though I do see a bit more of agreement with the last part, insofar as neither side being able to fix anything. My concern is that the Republican method for not fixing anything is to make the poor bare the brunt of all the consequences. And that is most certainly what R&R (good shorthand btw) have in mind.
And I'm not quite sure where I was fear-mongering. I was just pointing out bullshit. I don't think that's fear-mongering.Reason obeys itself; and ignorance does whatever is dictated to it.
August 13th, 2012, 11:42 AM #65
Even in the "both parties are to blame" realm, if you look at what Republicans delivered vs. what Democrats deliver, the poison is easy to pick. Democrats complained about a 1.3 trillion dollar unfunded war that cost thousands of American lives abroad when Bush was in office, and Republicans use Obamacare as the "evil" that has been done over Obama's term; An expansion of healthcare that SAVES money according the CBO, and even by the worst estimates the far-right can conjure, would cost pennies on the dollar compared to Iraq. And saves American lives, instead of eliminating them. That's the "evil" that's been done over the last 4 years that justifies sending control back to Republicans? LOL!
Originally Posted by Chuckiechan
August 13th, 2012, 11:43 AM #66My concern is that the Republican method for not fixing anything is to make the poor bare the brunt of all the consequences.
They undercut wages, and for each job they hold, that is one less available to some citizen on unemployment or welfare or sleeping in a car.
The best thing you can do for the poor is give them jobs, not more competition for the scraps. This whole open borders thing is a disaster for the poor.Obama: The rich have the Federal Reserve and the poor have Harry Reid... LOL. Life really is unfair!
August 13th, 2012, 01:02 PM #67
The illegals issue is a different issue. Yes they have an impact on the economy, no they did not cause the recession. The increase in wealth disparity isn't because of the number of Mexicans. It's because the wealthy in this country have the lowest tax rates in generations. The argument for lowering capital gains taxes cannot be factually supported in terms of benefiting the economy. It simply cannot.
And furthermore, how can you even bother to make the immigration argument when not only have deportations increased under Obama, but that the total immigrant population has also decreased(It's a link to a pdf). Not only is you argument not supported by facts, you're not even arguing a counterpoint.Reason obeys itself; and ignorance does whatever is dictated to it.
August 13th, 2012, 01:23 PM #68Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing
August 13th, 2012, 01:30 PM #69The increase in wealth disparity isn't because of the number of Mexicans.
Yes, many illegal aliens have returned to Mexico. They are here to work, and they work hard. They will outwork domestic labor and do it cheaper without bitching. The work - mostly construction and service jobs - dried up and many left. And when the economy picks up the will be coming back doing what they did before - undercutting wages and working harder.
We have a lot of lazy people, but we can deal with them later after the "willing and able" domestic workers are employed.
Ryan is going to be about cutting entitlement programs, and getting illegal aliens the hell out of here is job # 1. Those job belong to Americans. If the wages have to go up to fill them, so be it.Obama: The rich have the Federal Reserve and the poor have Harry Reid... LOL. Life really is unfair!
August 13th, 2012, 01:55 PM #70
And since we are having a "link fest" :
Romney-Ryan Ticket Puts Entitlement Crisis at Center of Campaign | RealClearPolitics
Naturally, Democrats have attacked the Ryan plan as gutting Medicare and have produced an ad showing Ryan shoving a wheelchair-bound granny down a hill. They're licking their chops at the prospect of running a Mediscare campaign against the Romney-Ryan ticket.
But it's not clear that the Mediscare tactic will work when the issue gains great visibility, as it will from Ryan's selection.
For Ryan and Romney can make the point -- lost in the shuffle when this is a low-visibility issue -- that their plan would leave the current Medicare system in place for current recipients and those who are 55 or older. Those who have made plans based on the present program could continue to rely on it.
But they also can make the point that their reforms are necessary in order to make sure Medicare is sustainable in the long run. Polls show that many voters younger than 55 doubt that they ever will get the Medicare and Social Security benefits they've been promised.
One more thing about Ryan, I think, appealed to Romney. He already has shown he cannot be intimidated by the most eminent opponent. Watch the video of Ryan's five-minute evisceration of Obamacare at the president's Blair House meeting. You can tell that Obama didn't like it one bit.
He'd better get used to it. Obama's side is relying on trash-talking ads. Romney's selection of Ryan shows he wants a debate on whether America should follow Obama on the road to a European-style welfare state.Obama: The rich have the Federal Reserve and the poor have Harry Reid... LOL. Life really is unfair!
August 13th, 2012, 02:08 PM #71
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Speaking of Ryan's (now supposedly rejected) idolizing of Ayn Rand:There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.A politician who has based his entire theory of governance and fiscal policy on his teenaged reading of Atlas Shrugged is like a general who has based his theory of military strategy on the Battle of Endor.
Last edited by Theophylact; August 13th, 2012 at 02:12 PM.In judging a two-person singing contest, never award the prize to the second soprano having heard only the first.
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August 13th, 2012, 02:18 PM #72
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Does that make any actual logical sense to you at all?
You have adult Mexicans working in what were once entry level jobs. The fact that no one in government gives a rip shows how empty promises of Obama putting our economic house in order.
You are flat out wrong and arguing from an untenable position that thephilosophizer already showed you was incorrect.
Ryan is going to be about cutting entitlement programs, and getting illegal aliens the hell out of here is job # 1. Those job belong to Americans. If the wages have to go up to fill them, so be it.
I think you don't have a clue what you are saying.Good job, friend-of-friends!
August 13th, 2012, 02:28 PM #73Originally Posted by Chuckiechan
Also, I've been meaning to ask you, last week you were talking about Obama's employment history as a reason why he isn't experienced enough to direct the economy toward growth:
Originally Posted by Chuckiechan
August 13th, 2012, 02:45 PM #74
Selective reading, Brandon?
After his sophomore year he worked the grill at McDonald's...
...Betty Ryan reportedly urged her son to accept a congressional position as a staff economist attached to Kasten's office, which he did after graduating in 1992. In his early years working on Capitol Hill, Ryan supplemented his income by working as a waiter, as a fitness trainer and at various other side jobs...
...In 1997 Ryan returned to Wisconsin and worked for his relatives' construction company, Ryan Incorporated Central, as a marketing consultant for a year.
August 13th, 2012, 02:48 PM #75Originally Posted by Chuckiechan
Obama has never had a real job in his life.
And Ryan? Call him what you want, but he's got brains and experience over Obama in spades. Ryan has pretty much been in the political business forever, but was always main stream... No Rev. Wright for that good Catholic boy.
For a prez & VP it's all good. Romney private & public experience and will deal with getting the country rolling again, and Ryan as a CFO of sorts, working on the biggest threat - run away entitlements.
Excluding SS and Medicare, there are 100 million people getting a check from the government. That's a lot for a country of a little over 300 million.
Besides, how can you be all for "hope and change" in 2008, and be afraid of change now?
BTW: I enjoy watching Obama slowly doing the "Carter Crumble"... it will only get worse...
Last edited by Chuckiechan; August 13th, 2012 at 02:50 PM.Obama: The rich have the Federal Reserve and the poor have Harry Reid... LOL. Life really is unfair!
August 13th, 2012, 02:55 PM #76
August 13th, 2012, 02:57 PM #77
BTW, your share of the national debt is $ 50,257. How are you going to pay it? One way or the other, you are going to pay it with lost economic opportunities.
U.S. National Debt Clock : Real TimeObama: The rich have the Federal Reserve and the poor have Harry Reid... LOL. Life really is unfair!
August 13th, 2012, 02:57 PM #78Originally Posted by The Real Bingo
The only problem is that even with the added experience of being a burger-flipper, a fitness trainer and the year-long stint as a "marketing consultant", by Chuck's definition, Paul Ryan has never had a real job.
Originally Posted by brandon184
The fact that Chuck sums up Obama's experience I noted above as "selling cocaine" just goes to show that he can't be taken seriously on these issues.
Last edited by brandon184; August 13th, 2012 at 03:01 PM.
August 13th, 2012, 02:58 PM #79
August 13th, 2012, 03:02 PM #80
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