Romney Picks Paul Ryan of Wisconsin

[The Real Bingo]

Change I can believe in. We're still at war and probably poised for another one (or two), Gitmo is still open, the economic problems didn't waver under the presence of such an immaculate man named Obama, and we expect the man who promised change four years ago and didn't deliver to somehow figure it out in the next four years?

Yes, DADT has been repealed and I commend him for that. Yes, we are out of Iraq. Yes Bin Laden is dead. And some wonderful monstrosity of a health care bill was passed, the terms of which we won't realize for some years. He has some accomplishments, but he seems to be out of his league and his ideology does not resonate with many. To be honest, I think his electoral success is due to the fact that the other side can't put up anyone much better than a trained monkey.

[Chuckiechan]

Chuck,

When Obama and Biden are launched back into the White House, do you have any plans to move out of the country in protest? Or are you just going to continue your daily routine of whining and pouting?

And do what, move to Canada? I prefer shorts and t shirts in the winter, thank you.

Either way, I'm not all that affected. I only worry about the opportunities for my kids and grand kids. Many people refuse to look into the future and wonder what is going to happen when we run out of money. All the figures are out there. All you have to do is read them and either believe them or don't believe them - that choice is yours.

[tony_j15]

No, he's an idiot for causing a scene and they had to arrest him. No one else did that. Give me a break!

And why did he cause the scene? Perhaps because someone suggested a malevolent plan to gut a security program you have had to pay in to for your whole working life. That makes him an idiot? Was he "impolite" to stand up? Sure, I guess. Did it warrant an arrest? Nope. Was he an idiot? Not at all. Would you call him an idiot if the tables were turned? If Biden was speaking about the ACA and someone stood up and had a few words to say about how the healthcare law was going to cost too much, would you call that person an idiot?

Either way, the combination of Romney and Ryan is a "dream team" of economic excellence. You could not have found better candidates to confront today's problems.

You young democrats are lucky to be alive to witness the salvation of the USA and to witness the democrats being sent back into the wilderness for another 40 years! And, you as individuals will all be better off than you are now because of it!

You old democrats have seen this movie before. You have lost your party (again) to the nut jobs.

Well, it's 10:17 PM PDT, so I figure when I get my coffee tomorrow morning and sit down at my computer, you liberal trolls should be all revved up and fighting over who gets first crack at my jugular vein in typical liberal fashion!

The attached pic is for you.

I love the months leading up to elections here in DIMO. This our third stretch here and we can see the same predictable behavior now as we have the last two times.

A) The incumbent supporters draw upon statistics, logic, reason and excuses to show that their candidate is the better man.

2) The challenger supporters accuse the media of tomfoolery, the current President of destroying the future of our country, and fellow board members of fear mongering and blind idealism.

And so, for the next few months, we can all look forward to this exact thread, rehashed in every manner imaginable, only differing in what the content of the original post was.

Face it guys, we all think we know what's best and stand above the herd, but in reality, we're all trolls and we're only here for the fray. When you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.

Let us then enjoy our fray as adults and men, rather than boys with black eyes. Etc, etc.

You speak much truth, sir.

[thephilosophizer]

Not true . . . we funded the Libyan conflict and we're funding the Syrian conflict in terms of arms and ammunition. Don't forget, Obama also sent troops, arms, and ammunition into half a dozen other African countries as well.

I'm not sure where you get your information from, but I pretty sure we didn't engage in a 10-year ground war in Libya. In fact, we only played support while our NATO allies did all the lifting, quite the reversal of the typical.
And Syria, that counts as funding a conflict? We're providing non-military aid, and not doing anything else, there is of course the possibility of secret provisioning of arms, but even if that were the case, there's simply no comparison between that and what we did in Iraq. That's really a pretty disingenuous argument.

Both parties are to blame! Obama made all these promises that he hasn't been able to keep and I said it before he was elected, you guys were buying the BS hook, line, and sinker. I knew he couldn't fix all the crap Bush Jr. caused, in one, two, or even 3 terms. Well, he's put the country in an even worse mess and the end is even further out of sight.

Now, you think he'll fix a majority of them when he's a lame duck President??? Obama would need full control of both the house and senate to push anything through . . . and it ain't going to happen. He might get re-elected, but he's done before ever serving a second term. (Which makes me wonder what he promised the Russians and others, that he would do for them during his second term.)

I'm very worried about what R&R are promising as well. I highly doubt he's going to do away with Medicare or SS. Even his Republican supporters would rise up against him if he tried. Yeah, you Dumborats and your fear mongering is unbelievable! Regardless, R&R making the promises they're making, are just as un-attainable as Obama's.

Just my thoughts.


Harder

I didn't say that I thought Obama was going to fix the lot of things, what I said was that the notion that Romney, or any Republican, could is patently absurd. And of course the presumption is that Obama will be able to do better, but that doesn't mean I expect the economy to be fixed.
Though I do see a bit more of agreement with the last part, insofar as neither side being able to fix anything. My concern is that the Republican method for not fixing anything is to make the poor bare the brunt of all the consequences. And that is most certainly what R&R (good shorthand btw) have in mind.
And I'm not quite sure where I was fear-mongering. I was just pointing out bullshit. I don't think that's fear-mongering.

[brandon184]

Change I can believe in. We're still at war and probably poised for another one (or two), Gitmo is still open, the economic problems didn't waver under the presence of such an immaculate man named Obama, and we expect the man who promised change four years ago and didn't deliver to somehow figure it out in the next four years?

I pose the same question to you that I asked Harder: What were you expecting, exactly? Was your interpretation of 'change' 4% unemployment within a few years?

Even in the "both parties are to blame" realm, if you look at what Republicans delivered vs. what Democrats deliver, the poison is easy to pick. Democrats complained about a 1.3 trillion dollar unfunded war that cost thousands of American lives abroad when Bush was in office, and Republicans use Obamacare as the "evil" that has been done over Obama's term; An expansion of healthcare that SAVES money according the CBO, and even by the worst estimates the far-right can conjure, would cost pennies on the dollar compared to Iraq. And saves American lives, instead of eliminating them. That's the "evil" that's been done over the last 4 years that justifies sending control back to Republicans? LOL!

And do what, move to Canada? I prefer shorts and t shirts in the winter, thank you.

Isn't Harder retiring to Central America? I'm sure that he will have a guest house or something that you can rent out for a small monthly fee. You could trade in the Tahoe for a Jimny and enjoy the beach life!

[Chuckiechan]

My concern is that the Republican method for not fixing anything is to make the poor bare the brunt of all the consequences.

How can you say that when Obama has basically told law enforcement to "stand down" and leave the illegal aliens alone. Most Illegal aliens compete directly with the poor in entry level jobs and labor.

They undercut wages, and for each job they hold, that is one less available to some citizen on unemployment or welfare or sleeping in a car.

The best thing you can do for the poor is give them jobs, not more competition for the scraps. This whole open borders thing is a disaster for the poor.

[thephilosophizer]

How can you say that when Obama has basically told law enforcement to "stand down" and leave the illegal aliens alone. Most Illegal aliens compete directly with the poor in entry level jobs and labor.

They undercut wages, and for each job they hold, that is one less available to some citizen on unemployment or welfare or sleeping in a car.

The best thing you can do for the poor is give them jobs, not more competition for the scraps. This whole open borders thing is a disaster for the poor.

That's the best response you've got? I ask a question about how cutting taxes for the wealthy can help the poor, and you shout illegal aliens? Talk about avoiding the question.
The illegals issue is a different issue. Yes they have an impact on the economy, no they did not cause the recession. The increase in wealth disparity isn't because of the number of Mexicans. It's because the wealthy in this country have the lowest tax rates in generations. The argument for lowering capital gains taxes cannot be factually supported in terms of benefiting the economy. It simply cannot.
And furthermore, how can you even bother to make the immigration argument when not only have deportations increased under Obama, but that the total immigrant population has also decreased(It's a link to a pdf). Not only is you argument not supported by facts, you're not even arguing a counterpoint.

[mad1]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/us...e.html?_r=1&hp

Hang your head between your legs and kiss your Medicare Good Bye !!!

News Distribution Network - Shared Video

[Chuckiechan]

The increase in wealth disparity isn't because of the number of Mexicans.

It's a big part of it. You have adult Mexicans working in what were once entry level jobs. The fact that no one in government gives a rip shows how empty promises of Obama putting our economic house in order.

Yes, many illegal aliens have returned to Mexico. They are here to work, and they work hard. They will outwork domestic labor and do it cheaper without bitching. The work - mostly construction and service jobs - dried up and many left. And when the economy picks up the will be coming back doing what they did before - undercutting wages and working harder.

We have a lot of lazy people, but we can deal with them later after the "willing and able" domestic workers are employed.

Ryan is going to be about cutting entitlement programs, and getting illegal aliens the hell out of here is job # 1. Those job belong to Americans. If the wages have to go up to fill them, so be it.

[Chuckiechan]

And since we are having a "link fest" :

Romney-Ryan Ticket Puts Entitlement Crisis at Center of Campaign | RealClearPolitics

Naturally, Democrats have attacked the Ryan plan as gutting Medicare and have produced an ad showing Ryan shoving a wheelchair-bound granny down a hill. They're licking their chops at the prospect of running a Mediscare campaign against the Romney-Ryan ticket.

But it's not clear that the Mediscare tactic will work when the issue gains great visibility, as it will from Ryan's selection.

For Ryan and Romney can make the point -- lost in the shuffle when this is a low-visibility issue -- that their plan would leave the current Medicare system in place for current recipients and those who are 55 or older. Those who have made plans based on the present program could continue to rely on it.

But they also can make the point that their reforms are necessary in order to make sure Medicare is sustainable in the long run. Polls show that many voters younger than 55 doubt that they ever will get the Medicare and Social Security benefits they've been promised.

One more thing about Ryan, I think, appealed to Romney. He already has shown he cannot be intimidated by the most eminent opponent. Watch the video of Ryan's five-minute evisceration of Obamacare at the president's Blair House meeting. You can tell that Obama didn't like it one bit.

He'd better get used to it. Obama's side is relying on trash-talking ads. Romney's selection of Ryan shows he wants a debate on whether America should follow Obama on the road to a European-style welfare state.

And this is what the election will be about. As a voter, you deserve a clear choice as to what kind of a future you want.

[Theophylact]

Speaking of Ryan's (now supposedly rejected) idolizing of Ayn Rand:

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

Lance Mannion adds:

A politician who has based his entire theory of governance and fiscal policy on his teenaged reading of Atlas Shrugged is like a general who has based his theory of military strategy on the Battle of Endor.

[tony_j15]

It's a big part of it.

A "big part" of wealth disparity has to do with illegals taking jobs for less than minimum wage?
Does that make any actual logical sense to you at all?

You have adult Mexicans working in what were once entry level jobs. The fact that no one in government gives a rip shows how empty promises of Obama putting our economic house in order.

If no one gave a rip, why has the Obama administration thrown out twice as many illegals as his predecessors did? If the promises were empty, why has unemployment been going down?
You are flat out wrong and arguing from an untenable position that thephilosophizer already showed you was incorrect.

Ryan is going to be about cutting entitlement programs, and getting illegal aliens the hell out of here is job # 1. Those job belong to Americans. If the wages have to go up to fill them, so be it.

What does cutting entitlement programs have to do with getting the illegals out? Do you think if we get rid of unemployment benefits and the like, Americans will suddenly all become employed and all the illegals will be forced out?
I think you don't have a clue what you are saying.

[brandon184]

Ryan is going to be about cutting entitlement programs, and getting illegal aliens the hell out of here is job # 1.

What is Ryan's strategy for "getting illegal aliens the hell out"?

Also, I've been meaning to ask you, last week you were talking about Obama's employment history as a reason why he isn't experienced enough to direct the economy toward growth:

Obama has never had a real job in his life.

I was wondering if you could tell us a bit about Paul Ryan's employment history and how it relates to his view of prioritizing spending to best grow the economy. As far as I can tell, and correct me if I'm wrong, Ryan has absolutely no private sector experience outside of a brief summer job driving the Oscar Meyer Weinermobile.

[The Real Bingo]

Selective reading, Brandon?

After his sophomore year he worked the grill at McDonald's...

...Betty Ryan reportedly urged her son to accept a congressional position as a staff economist attached to Kasten's office, which he did after graduating in 1992. In his early years working on Capitol Hill, Ryan supplemented his income by working as a waiter, as a fitness trainer and at various other side jobs...

...In 1997 Ryan returned to Wisconsin and worked for his relatives' construction company, Ryan Incorporated Central, as a marketing consultant for a year.

[Chuckiechan]

Originally Posted by Chuckiechan
Obama has never had a real job in his life.

There are so many missing pages in Obama's book... it looks like the only private sector experience Obama has was selling cocaine. I would really hesitate to ask too many questions or someone might think you are a birther!

And Ryan? Call him what you want, but he's got brains and experience over Obama in spades. Ryan has pretty much been in the political business forever, but was always main stream... No Rev. Wright for that good Catholic boy.

For a prez & VP it's all good. Romney private & public experience and will deal with getting the country rolling again, and Ryan as a CFO of sorts, working on the biggest threat - run away entitlements.

Excluding SS and Medicare, there are 100 million people getting a check from the government. That's a lot for a country of a little over 300 million.

Besides, how can you be all for "hope and change" in 2008, and be afraid of change now?

BTW: I enjoy watching Obama slowly doing the "Carter Crumble"... it will only get worse...

[aldtech]

[Chuckiechan]

A "big part" of wealth disparity has to do with illegals taking jobs for less than minimum wage?
Does that make any actual logical sense to you at all?

If you understand that the poor are poor because they aren't getting raises or there aren't enough jobs, it's not a great leap to understand that a job taken by and illegal is a job a legal person could have.

Regarding wealth disparity, Obama is suggesting we all enjoy wealth without regard to effort. Vote for him if you believe that.


If no one gave a rip, why has the Obama administration thrown out twice as many illegals as his predecessors did? If the promises were empty, why has unemployment been going down?
You are flat out wrong and arguing from an untenable position that thephilosophizer already showed you was incorrect.

The read what I wrote back to him.

What does cutting entitlement programs have to do with getting the illegals out? Do you think if we get rid of unemployment benefits and the like, Americans will suddenly all become employed and all the illegals will be forced out?
I think you don't have a clue what you are saying.

There are entitlement programs we need: SS, Medicare, and unemployment, most welfare. There are many more we do not. We need to save the "big three" because as it stands not, they are going broke. Obama deleting the work requirement of welfare was not encouraging.

BTW, your share of the national debt is $ 50,257. How are you going to pay it? One way or the other, you are going to pay it with lost economic opportunities.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

[brandon184]

Selective reading, Brandon?

My mistake! I wasn't thorough enough.

The only problem is that even with the added experience of being a burger-flipper, a fitness trainer and the year-long stint as a "marketing consultant", by Chuck's definition, Paul Ryan has never had a real job.

If being a civil rights attorney, professor, and award-winning, best-selling author earning millions of dollars qualifies as "never having had a real job", what does, exactly? This guy has earned more in the private sector than most ever will in their entire lives.

So that's why I'm wondering how that experience can be parlayed into Ryan being the economic "dream" candidate, while Obama's experience just isn't enough to "get it".

The fact that Chuck sums up Obama's experience I noted above as "selling cocaine" just goes to show that he can't be taken seriously on these issues.

[Chuckiechan]

Why don't you go out and check your sugar trees. We have a whole nation who doesn't even know there is a New Hampshire, but likes maple sugar.

[The Real Bingo]

My mistake! I wasn't thorough enough.

The only problem is that even with the added experience of being a burger-flipper, a fitness trainer and the year-long stint as a "marketing consultant", by Chuck's definition, Paul Ryan has never had a real job.

He surely hasn't held any substantive positions in the private sector. He's just like most every other national politician - a lifer embedded and entrenched in the system. Not the best guy to shake things up.