Woodburn priest chased boy down street after abuse

**Taxmancometh** · August 17th, 2012, 05:08 AM

Police: Woodburn priest chased boy down street after abuse | OregonLive.com

What is UP with these damn Catholics?

**Epidemic** · August 17th, 2012, 10:02 AM

I don't know if catholics are any worse but they sure to seem to stand out in the news.

**Whir** · August 17th, 2012, 10:29 AM

First of all, it's "damned," not damn.

Second, there are more catholics in the United States, and therefor more Catholic priests, than any other religion. Now, protestants outnumber Catholics by about 2:1, but no single protestant branch is larger than Catholicism. In fact, the next largest, Baptism, is two-thirds the size. And further, more than 75% of the US population is Christian.

It turns out to be a simple game of numbers compounded by a media engine that will do anything it can to keep its raitings high.

You do not typically hear the majority complaining about a very small portion of itself, and in this case, we're talking about less than .1%. You hear the minority, and that's who the media feeds.

So congratz on your outlook on Catholics, all 77 million of which I'm sure you know personally.

**tony_j15** · August 17th, 2012, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Whir

It turns out to be a simple game of numbers compounded by a media engine that will do anything it can to keep its raitings high.

That's one explanation. I've seen reports of Baptist ministers or Methodist camp counselors committing the same atrocities. The obvious difference though, is Baptists or Presbyterians haven't been using their corporate power to try and get the pedophiles off the hook.
There is simply no comparison between what the Catholic political/power system has done and any other religious organization.

**Epidemic** · August 17th, 2012, 10:45 AM

I am not sure the largest branch argument holds water.

You simply do not hear about Pastors nailing kids as much as Catholic priests. It may be a byproduct of the news harping for a long time about one and just a quick blurb on the other but...

I most certainly appears that there are more priest stories than Pastor stories.

I believe this is probably a real problem caused the process of the priesthood. I am betting that the priesthood has more people trying to make up for sins. the priesthood looks like a good place to deal with ones demons but in the end that gay guy who tries to deny his sexuality ends up acting out every once and a while.

I don't believe this is a majority of priests thing but I think it accounts for an unusually high incidents of "mistakes" "oopsies". I don't know if it is true but it is how I explain the apparent disproportionate number of sex abuse cases.

**Whir** · August 17th, 2012, 10:45 AM

True, but that's not the issue I was addressing. Tax seems to see all of Catholicism as child molesters, or at least something bad enough to warrant "damn"ing all of them.

Funny thing is that, if I recall correctly, he's anti-gay too, so they're the religious body in America he has the most in common with in that aspect.

**JEROY** · August 17th, 2012, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Taxmancometh

Police: Woodburn priest chased boy down street after abuse | OregonLive.com

What is UP with these damn Catholics?

You mean some Catholic priests ?

**Whir** · August 17th, 2012, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Epidemic

I am not sure the largest branch argument holds water.

You simply do not hear about Pastors nailing kids as much as Catholic priests. It may be a byproduct of the news harping for a long time about one and just a quick blurb on the other but...

I most certainly appears that there are more priest stories than Pastor stories.

I believe this is probably a real problem caused the process of the priesthood. I am betting that the priesthood has more people trying to make up for sins. the priesthood looks like a good place to deal with ones demons but in the end that gay guy who tries to deny his sexuality ends up acting out every once and a while.

I don't believe this is a majority of priests thing but I think it accounts for an unusually high incidents of "mistakes" "oopsies". I don't know if it is true but it is how I explain the apparent disproportionate number of sex abuse cases.

I swear you come up with this stuff just to see how utterly crazy you can get before someone calls you on it. XD I'd love to see that Pew poll. "Did you join the priesthood to reform for your homosexuality or pedophilia?"

But, I won't argue that it's probably happened before. And if we know anything about humans, it's that compulsion will always win out over faith in the end.

**butch81385** · August 17th, 2012, 11:14 AM

To clear up some misconceptions in this thread:

Catholic priests have the same historical rate of child molestation as any major religion (including protestants and jewish rabbis).

This rate is thought to be around 4% based on probable cases since 1950.

The general male population has a conservative rate of about 1 in 10, or 10% for sexual abuse (not listed as whether that is limited to children only). Some experts claim the true rate is closer to 1 in 5.

Public school teachers sexually abuse children at a much higher rate than Catholic priests (or the general population as a whole). In fact, children are over 100 times more likely to be abused by a teacher than by their religious leader.

There was no grand cover up in place regarding Catholic priests. Abusive priests between the 60s and the 80s were allowed to continue preaching after abuses due to the prevailing thought of experts at the time. The standard procedure for psychologists and most organizations at that time was to attempt to "rehabilitate" the person and then allow them back at their job. This has since stopped in the Catholic church, even though it is still prevalent in other fields, such as public school teachers.

The Catholic church is currently one of the safest places for children. New rules instituted by the church, both for men entering the seminary (which includes psychological screening as well as rigorous training) as well as for any volunteer that comes in contact with children (teachers, youth ministers, youth volunteers, all the way down to even the ushers at mass all have to have background checks preformed as well as attending a training seminar). In recent years, there have averaged less than 9 credible claims against priests per year, which is a much lessor rate than almost any organized group.

Some links with most or all of the info above:
Catholic sex abuse facts :: Fast Facts from TheMediaReport.com
Priests Commit No More Abuse Than Other Males - Newsweek and The Daily Beast
http://www.childmolestationpreventio...pdfs/study.pdf

All of that being said, even 1 case is too many, and the Catholic church is working to bring that number of new cases down to 0 (as every organization should).

**Whir** · August 17th, 2012, 11:17 AM

See? Being right is what I do.

**Epidemic** · August 17th, 2012, 11:25 AM

is it fair to use those statistics when the catholic church was known to coverup cases?

If there were a historical coverup would not the numbers likely inflate?

I agree with public school teachers being a problem as well. Pedophiles often insure they take jobs that put them in close proximity to children. Teaching would be probably one of the most likely places to achieve this goal.

**Whir** · August 17th, 2012, 11:29 AM

And you feel that somehow no other organization would try to cover up poor behavior in their ranks? It's all relevant to the whole.

**Epidemic** · August 17th, 2012, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Whir

I swear you come up with this stuff just to see how utterly crazy you can get before someone calls you on it. XD I'd love to see that Pew poll. "Did you join the priesthood to reform for your homosexuality or pedophilia?"

But, I won't argue that it's probably happened before. And if we know anything about humans, it's that compulsion will always win out over faith in the end.

I may choose the most inflametory way to express it but I do think it is possible.

A 2002 nationwide poll in America by the Los Angeles Times of 1,854 Roman Catholic priests reported that 80% of referred to themselves as "mostly" heterosexual, with 67% being exclusively heterosexual, 8% leaning toward heterosexual, 5% completely in the middle, and 6% leaning toward homosexual and 9% saying they are homosexual, for a combined figure of 15% on the homosexual side. Among younger priests (those ordained for 20 years or less) the figure was 23%.

If true I could reasonably guess that the increase in gay priests homosexuality rate may well be accounted for by joining to avoid the sinful life. adding to this the un-natural state of celebacy and its effects on someone and I think you have a recipie for problems.

**butch81385** · August 17th, 2012, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Epidemic

is it fair to use those statistics when the catholic church was known to coverup cases?

If there were a historical coverup would not the numbers likely inflate?

I agree with public school teachers being a problem as well. Pedophiles often insure they take jobs that put them in close proximity to children. Teaching would be probably one of the most likely places to achieve this goal.

"According to the USCCB, Catholic bishops in the 1950s and 1960s viewed sexual abuse by priests as "a spiritual problem, one requiring a spiritual solution, i.e. prayer".[103] However, starting in the 1960s, the bishops came to adopt an emerging view based on the advice of medical personnel who recommended psychiatric and psychological treatment for those who sexually abused minors. This view asserted that with treatment priests who had molested children could safely be placed back into ministry, although perhaps with certain restrictions such as not being in contact with children.[104] This approach viewed pedophilia as an addiction, such as alcoholism which can be treated and restrained.[103]"

The key point out of that is that they were following what many medical personnel considered to be the best option. That leads one to easily assume that many large organizations would have followed the same advice. Therefore, the lack of credible numbers would most likely be similar between any major organization that followed this advice.

**Epidemic** · August 17th, 2012, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Whir

And you feel that somehow no other organization would try to cover up poor behavior in their ranks? It's all relevant to the whole.

I think in the case of pedophilia it is more likely that the private world would feed the son of a bitch to the wolves.

**butch81385** · August 17th, 2012, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Epidemic

I may choose the most inflametory way to express it but I do think it is possible.

If true I could reasonably guess that the increase in gay priests homosexuality rate may well be accounted for by joining to avoid the sinful life. adding to this the un-natural state of celebacy and its effects on someone and I think you have a recipie for problems.

There have been numerous studies that show that there is no correlation between being gay and being a pedophile, nor with taking a vow of celibacy and being a pedophile.

If you think about it, having a sexual attraction towards children has nothing to do with whether you are attracted to men or women. Additionally, if you think that not having sex (either with an adult male or female) causes someone to start having sexual urges towards kids, you are crazy IMO. If you think that they already had these urges, I would consider you crazy if you think that having sex with a male or female adult would satiate these urges. Almost all professionals, and even most common joe-schmoe's recognize that the sexual attraction towards children is not related to how much sex they are getting from adults. There are plenty of married child molesters out there that prove that point. If the church allowed the priests to marry, chances are these same priests would still have abused children (the only difference in numbers coming from not being able to hide it from your spouse).

**butch81385** · August 17th, 2012, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Epidemic

I think in the case of pedophilia it is more likely that the private world would feed the son of a bitch to the wolves.

These days, yes. 50 years ago? I doubt it.

**Epidemic** · August 17th, 2012, 12:01 PM

the news stories I see are today not 50 years ago.

the coverups were still happening in the 90's and beyond AFAIAC.

at that time was to attempt to "rehabilitate" the person and then allow them back at their job

This was going on well beyond when the rest of society knew this was wrong.

I don't know what has changed in the last decade and whether it is effective.

I would also not hesitate let a priest watch my kid but I am going to do my best to decide if he is trust worthy and not take the robe as my metric for trustworthiness.

I don't think sexual deviancy is rampant in the priest hood, I just personally think it might be a tick up from society for the reasons I stated in previous post. Most priests (the vast, vast, vast majority)are all in kinda guys who really try to do good AFAIAC.

**butch81385** · August 17th, 2012, 12:12 PM

Your comment about "a tick up from society" has no proof other than the prevalence in media coverage. Even insurance companies, who write policies that cover an organization in the case of a child abuse state that the Catholic church has no higher rate than anyone else they insure, and therefore receive the same cost as everyone else (and if you have ever dealt with insurance, you would know that the minute you step beyond what is considered normal, they jack the rates up tremendously).

I am glad that you do not hold these claims over the heads of all priests, and I agree with you that as a parent you must always decide if a person is worthy of being responsible for your kids. While I would love to say that priests are better than other people due to their morals, the truth is humans are humans and always will be humans, and because of that innocent people will get hurt by humans that are in a leadership or powerful position.

**Epidemic** · August 17th, 2012, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by butch81385

Your comment about "a tick up from society" has no proof other than the prevalence in media coverage. Even insurance companies, who write policies that cover an organization in the case of a child abuse state that the Catholic church has no higher rate than anyone else they insure, and therefore receive the same cost as everyone else (and if you have ever dealt with insurance, you would know that the minute you step beyond what is considered normal, they jack the rates up tremendously).

I am glad that you do not hold these claims over the heads of all priests, and I agree with you that as a parent you must always decide if a person is worthy of being responsible for your kids. While I would love to say that priests are better than other people due to their morals, the truth is humans are humans and always will be humans, and because of that innocent people will get hurt by humans that are in a leadership or powerful position.

Except for the pope he is infallable