Charlie Pierce

[Theophylact]

on Republican fantasies:

It was about halfway through the speech given by Mary Fallin, by the grace of a pitiless god the governor of Oklahoma, where I finally came close to losing it. She rolled herself into this remarkable passage:

The history of my great state of Oklahoma offers a great example of pursuing the American Dream. It was built and settled by pioneers moving west to seek better lives. During the Great Land Run of 1889, thousands of families rushed to put a stake down on empty plots of land. They built tent cities overnight. They farmed the land and they worked hard. And, in 1897, eight years after the land run, a handful of adventurous pioneers risked their own money — not the federal government's money — to drill Oklahoma's first oil well, the Nellie Johnstone. By doing so, these early-day pioneers changed the future and Oklahoma forever and today Oklahoma is one of the nation's key energy producers and job creators. President Obama wants us to believe that Oklahomans owe that success to the federal government — to the Department Of Energy,to the EPA, to the IRS, or maybe even to him. Mr. President, we know better. As we say in Oklahoma, that dog won't hunt.

Handed in as a seventh-grade history essay, this would get no better than a D. Delivered to the convention of one of our only two political parties, it was perhaps the most singularly dishonest speech I have ever seen a politician give, and I grew up in Massachusetts, and Willard Romney was once my governor. My god, Oklahomans wouldn't even have Oklahoma without the federal government, without the Homestead Act of 1889 or the Railroad Act — both, by the way, achievements of a Republican presidents named Abraham Lincoln and Benjamin Harrison. And the land wasn't exactly "empty," Governor. It got emptied by a big-government program called the United States Army. You know what your state would be without the federal government, Governor, without the votes for the legislation from congressmen from the east and north, without the soldiers from New England and the Great Lakes? You know what Oklahoma would be?

Sand, with a whole lot of pissed-off Native Americans.

[tony_j15]

Oklahoma would be sand except for the government?

More like it would be an independent nation of Cherokee, among others.

[Theophylact]

Oklahoma would be sand except for the government? :?

More like it would be an independent nation of Cherokee, among others.

Well, in fact, it wouldn't have had the Cherokee, if Andrew Jackson hadn't expelled them:

The Trail of Tears is a name given to the forced relocation and movement of Native American nations from southeastern parts of the United States following the Indian Removal Act of 1830. The removal included many members of the Cherokee, Muscogee (Creek), Seminole, Chickasaw, and Choctaw nations, among others in the United States, from their homelands to Indian Territory (eastern sections of the present-day state of Oklahoma). The phrase originated from a description of the removal of the Choctaw Nation in 1831. Many Native Americans suffered from exposure, disease and starvation en route to their destinations. Many died, including 4,000 of the 15,000 relocated Cherokee.

In 1831, the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Muscogee-Creek, and Seminole (sometimes collectively referred to as the Five Civilized Tribes) were living as autonomous nations in what would be called the American Deep South. The process of cultural transformation (proposed by George Washington and Henry Knox) was gaining momentum, especially among the Cherokee and Choctaw.Andrew Jackson continued and renewed the political and military effort for the removal of the Native Americans from these lands with the passage of the Indian Removal Act of 1830.

In 1831 the Choctaw were the first to be removed, and they became the model for all other removals. After the Choctaw, the Seminole were removed in 1832, the Creek in 1834, then the Chickasaw in 1837, and finally the Cherokee in 1838. After removal, some Native Americans remained in their ancient homelands - the Choctaw are found in Mississippi, the Seminole in Florida, the Creek in Alabama, and the Cherokee in North Carolina. A limited number of non-native Americans (including African-Americans - usually as slaves) also accompanied the Native American nations on the trek westward. By 1837, 46,000 Native Americans from these southeastern states had been removed from their homelands thereby opening 25 million acres (100,000 km2) for predominantly white settlement.

The fixed boundaries of these autonomous tribal nations, comprising large areas of the United States, were subject to continual cession and annexation prior to 1830, in part due to pressure from squatters and the threat of military force in the newly declared U.S. territories -- federally administered regions whose boundaries supervened upon the Native treaty claims. As these territories became U.S. states, state governments sought to dissolve the boundaries of the Indian nations within their borders, which were independent of state jurisdiction, and to expropriate the land therein. These pressures were magnified by U.S. population growth and the expansion of slavery in the South.

[tony_j15]

Known and acknowledged.

I know I'm being nit-picky here, but it's just a little ironic that Mr. Pierce is dogging the Governor for lack of knowledge when it seems he's a bit ignorant himself.

[aldtech]

Interesting read. I think that pretty much sums up my opinion of the Republican mentality right now as well. They are just spewing out lies one after another as they continue to build their house of cards. And we all know a house of cards always comes down. Let’s just hope it’s not too late.

/ald

[mad1]

Interesting read. I think that pretty much sums up my opinion of the Republican mentality right now as well. They are just spewing out lies one after another as they continue to build their house of cards. And we all know a house of cards always comes down. Let’s just hope it’s not too late.

/ald

Do you mean talking about how bad the unemployment rate has been with Obama as president?

[aldtech]

Do you mean talking about how bad the unemployment rate has been with Obama as president?

Using your own graph with the exception of the first few months, it looks like there has been and what could not be denied, a downward trend in the unemployment rate since he inherited this economy from that idiot bush.



/ald

[sharder8]

Using your own graph with the exception of the first few months, it looks like there has been and what could not be denied, a downward trend in the unemployment rate since he inherited this economy from that idiot bush.



/ald

The graph is very deceptive aldtech, part of the improvement shown in the graph is:

1. The number of unemployed who fell off the accounting when their unemployment ran out.

2. The graph also doesn't show the number of unemployed that gave up looking for work and dropped off the list.

3. Or the number that were old enough and choose to retire, even through they were able to work and wanted to work.

4. Another group is those who stayed in school or went back to school, thereby not being counted as unemployed. (The VA is very good at this one. If you are under 60? and unemployed, the VA will pay you and pay for schooling if your current degree is no longer of use due to your disabilities. Example: I'm 55, unemployed, and my BA was in Phys. Ed., which I'm no longer physically able to do. The VA has enrolled me to get my MA in another career area.)

5. Those who fell off the graph when they moved from unemployed to disabled and drawing SSDI. (You can't collect both at the same time.)

6. Finally, returning Veteran's who drop off the unemployed graph when they receive 100% VA service related disability. (Some also choose to not play the unemployment game with lower disability ratings.)

When those numbers are added in, current unemployment is somewhere in the 15-17% range.


Harder

[tony_j15]

That's called the U-6 unemployment stat which the BLS tracks. It has also quite obviously been trending downwards.

Both the U-3 and the U-6 correlate. So no, it's not deceptive. Both graphs tell the same story. Unemployment is trending down. Nowhere near as fast as we'd like, but it is happening.

[aldtech]

The graph is very deceptive aldtech, part of the improvement shown in the graph is:

1. The number of unemployed who fell off the accounting when their unemployment ran out.

2. The graph also doesn't show the number of unemployed that gave up looking for work and dropped off the list.

3. Or the number that were old enough and choose to retire, even through they were able to work and wanted to work.

4. Another group is those who stayed in school or went back to school, thereby not being counted as unemployed. (The VA is very good at this one. If you are under 60? and unemployed, the VA will pay you and pay for schooling if your current degree is no longer of use due to your disabilities. Example: I'm 55, unemployed, and my BA was in Phys. Ed., which I'm no longer physically able to do. The VA has enrolled me to get my MA in another career area.)

5. Those who fell off the graph when they moved from unemployed to disabled and drawing SSDI. (You can't collect both at the same time.)

6. Finally, returning Veteran's who drop off the unemployed graph when they receive 100% VA service related disability. (Some also choose to not play the unemployment game with lower disability ratings.)

When those numbers are added in, current unemployment is somewhere in the 15-17% range.


Harder

Thanks for the input. I took macro-economy in college and fully understand what the unemployment rate is leaving out but that still does not deny the fact that unemployment has been trending down over the past 3 years.

/ald

[sharder8]

That's called the U-6 unemployment stat which the BLS tracks. It has also quite obviously been trending downwards.

Both the U-3 and the U-6 correlate. So no, it's not deceptive. Both graphs tell the same story. Unemployment is trending down. Nowhere near as fast as we'd like, but it is happening.

From the BLS site:

NOTE: Persons marginally attached to the labor force are those who currently are neither working nor looking for work but indicate that they want and are available for a job and have looked for work sometime in the past 12 months. Discouraged workers, a subset of the marginally attached, have given a job-market related reason for not currently looking for work. Persons employed part time for economic reasons are those who want and are available for full-time work but have had to settle for a part-time schedule. Updated population controls are introduced annually with the release of January data.

In other words tony, the chart accounts for #'s 1 & 2, from my post, but do not account for #'s 3, 4, 5, and 6. I don't know of any specific site that includes all of those, but the VA is currently paying a pretty large number of disabled Veterans to go back to school.

This is just the VRAP program.

The VRAP offers 12 months of training assistance to Veterans who:
Are at least 35 but no more than 60 years old
Are unemployed on the date of application
Received an other than dishonorable discharge
Are not be eligible for any other VA education benefit program (e.g.: the Post-9/11 GI Bill, Montgomery GI Bill, Vocational Rehabilitation and Employment Assistance)
Are not in receipt of VA compensation due to unemployability
Are not enrolled in a federal or state job training program

The program is limited to 45,000 participants from July 1, 2012, through September 30, 2012, and 54,000 participants from October 1, 2012, through March 31, 2014. Participants must attend full-time in order to receive up to 12 months of assistance equal to the monthly full-time payment rate under the Montgomery GI Bill–Active Duty program (currently $1,473 per month). DOL will offer employment assistance to every Veteran who participates upon completion of the program.

I'm being covered under the VA's Vocational Rehabilitation and Employment Assistance program. Latest figures found:

During fiscal years 1999 through 2008, 86,983 program participants achieved rehabilitation by obtaining and maintaining suitable employment. Additionally, during that same period, 21,108 participants achieved rehabilitation through maximum independence in daily living.

Additional info can be gleaned from the 2011 VA Benefits Report starting on page 37.


Harder

[MegalosSkylaki]

There is a Great American Myth that the Great West is exemplary to all the rest of the Country for its rugged individualism that did not need Government intervention.

The reality is that when the white settlers moved from the well-watered slopes of the East into the great plains and the southeast past the Mississippi. the amount of rainfall began to drop dramatically. This required Government intervention--as it does to this day--in building water works projects to allow for human habitation beyond a certain minimum per square mile. A disproportionate per capita amount is still spent by the Federal Government out West for land and water management.

Water is still the crucial element in land development and population and will only increase in importance in the 21st Centuary.

MegalosSkylaki

Gee, here I thought you meant the pragmatist philospher....

Charles Sanders Peirce ( /ˈpɜrs/ like "purse";[8] September 10, 1839 – April 19, 1914) was an American philosopher, logician, mathematician, and scientist, sometimes known as "the father of pragmatism". He was educated as a chemist and employed as a scientist for 30 years. Today he is appreciated largely for his contributions to logic, mathematics, philosophy, scientific methodology, and semiotics, and for his founding of pragmatism. In 1934, the philosopher Paul Weiss called Peirce "the most original and versatile of American philosophers and America's greatest logician".[9]

[Theophylact]

Known and acknowledged.

I know I'm being nit-picky here, but it's just a little ironic that Mr. Pierce is dogging the Governor for lack of knowledge when it seems he's a bit ignorant himself.

Charlie Pierce is a columnist, humorist and blogger who's on deadline and lives in Boston. He's entitled to make a tiny error about sand. Mary Fallin is the Governor of Frigging Oklahoma.

Gee, here I thought you meant the pragmatist philospher

Different Charlie. Peirce/Pierce is a real dividing line in Boston.

[mad1]

Using your own graph with the exception of the first few months, it looks like there has been and what could not be denied, a downward trend in the unemployment rate since he inherited this economy from that idiot bush.



/ald

Will there ever be a point that something is Obama's fault?

[Theophylact]

Will there ever be a point that something is Obama's fault?

There's a great deal that's Obama's fault. He's rotten on civil liberties, on governmental transparency, on executive privilege. He's been unwilling to fight for the economic programs that the country really needs. He hasn't done a single thing to enfranchise the citizens of the District of Columbia, and he has no plan for the disaster that will follow our (admittedly essential) withdrawal from Afghanistan. He is the worst negotiator I've ever encountered; he always takes as his starting point what anyone else would consider the final compromise position.

But trying to blame him by using fiddled statistics is not kosher.

[tony_j15]

Will there ever be a point that something is Obama's fault?

Yes. His "surge" in Afghanistan got a thousand service-personell killed and we still don't have an end game. He should have stuck with his Senate position and got us out at the earliest opportunity. The blame for each and every service member's death since he took office rests in his hands.

[pickel]

Yes. His "surge" in Afghanistan got a thousand service-personell killed and we still don't have an end game. He should have stuck with his Senate position and got us out at the earliest opportunity. The blame for each and every service member's death since he took office rests in his hands.

I'll "Second" that !!!! And ALL the one's before were Bush's fault !!!!

And now we have Willard and Stooge trying to get in to Fuck things up even worse.

But, hey, it's all clear now the purpose of Ryan's plan: Those un-aborted babies could be sent right into the Army when they reach 18. Ready for a NEW War. Yeah !!!!!!!!!!

[aldtech]

Will there ever be a point that something is Obama's fault?

Yes of course there is, as others have already posted about in this thread. One of Theo's comments is one I am very much in agreement with.

He is the worst negotiator I've ever encountered; he always takes as his starting point what anyone else would consider the final compromise position.

I accredit that with a need for President Obama to be seen as trying to compromise, to reach across the aisle to the other party. Too bad the other side, the party of NO, would not negotiate in good faith. I believe that during his first 2 years he should have learned more quickly to understand that the republicans were not going to work with him no matter what and just whipped his own party in line to ram through the things he wanted. He wasted too much time on trying to compromise on healthcare.

But most of all, what he has me foaming at the mouth about the most is that he let the banks get away with what I believe was the biggest Ponzi scheme in history, that being the mortgage /housing debacle. To date no prosecutions have been made and there will be none coming while people are still losing their houses and ending up with bad credit ratings. The banks walked away from that unpunished, credit and bonuses intact, and we paid them to do it. That is the crime of the century in my eyes.

And he let it happen.

/ald