to build or not to build, that is the question...

**cyphen** · April 4th, 2004, 07:46 PM

Hi all. (or some, considering that chances are pretty slim that ALL will visit this thread...)

So here's the deal... i have no sense of urgency to upgrade, so take time out of the equation. It would be nice, but my systems are plenty powerful enough as it is...

What i'm wondering (since i've been out of the loop for a bit) is should i upgrade now, or is there a big change on the horizon. I know 64 bit will be taking off, but if it's gonna be more than a year, i'm not waiting that long to upgrade. But i did hear rumors about either some PCI bus standards changing over, or SATA changes - or something happening around the 3rd quarter of this year. Anyone know what that may be?

So given all that, should i wait to build my computer? If there's some big technology coming out in the fall, then i'll wait but otherwise....

I'm looking to build something that meets the following conditions, so any recommendations would be appreciated:

Dual Channel DDR support for PC3200 or better
Used to AMD, but i'm open minded to Intel nowadays (if there's a clear difference)
Dual processor would be nice, but not necessary
Northbridge Gigabit would be nice
I'm going to stripe drives using dynamic disk, so if there's something that has more controllers, that would be cool...
Need some advice on chipsets... heard nForce is good, but was reading about an AMD chipset coming out that was at least as good... not sure what's out there right now...
USB 2.0 - goes without saying...

And anyone have any experience with those little BOXX computers? know what i'm talking about? they're like 8" cubes.... only have 1 pci slot, but have about every connectivity you'd need built right in... Are they worth it? Is overheating an issue with them? Is the airflow good? Are they quiet?

I know iknow... i'm full of questions!
Thanks in advance!

**ShawnD1** · April 4th, 2004, 08:42 PM

What do you use your computer for? Unless you play games or use software that requires a lot of power (3D modeling like Solidworks, or rendering with Photoshop), upgrading probably isn't worth it.
About that stuff changing, that new PCI thing you mentioned is called PCI Express and it's aparently going to replace AGP. The change from AGP to PCI express will probably take years.

About that box thing. If it's just 1 PCI slot, it's probably not worth it. I have 2 sound cards in my computer so I can easily switch between headphones and the TV. RIght there I would have gone over the limit on PCI slots.
Try not to restrict yourself when it comes to expansions. Cheaping out will cost you a lot more in the end.

**John Prophet** · April 4th, 2004, 09:04 PM

Athlon 64 is pretty much "here" now.

PCI xpress seems a ways off still....and regular pci wont go anywhere anytime soon.

---

for the athlon64 there is the "nforce3-250" chipset http://www.anandtech.com/chipsets/showdoc.html?i=2009

SIS has new chipsets either out or coming out..the sis656 for P4 has pci xpress and the 756 for athlon 64 has pci xpress http://www.tomshardware.com/business...2004_1-11.html

I thought I saw a review of a 656 board and it was getting good reviews...beating the intel 875 chipset handily..but I cant find them now.

JP

**teengeek88** · April 4th, 2004, 09:07 PM

And anyone have any experience with those little BOXX computers? know what i'm talking about? they're like 8" cubes.... only have 1 pci slot, but have about every connectivity you'd need built right in... Are they worth it? Is overheating an issue with them? Is the airflow good? Are they quiet?

i built one for my brother and works well he is very happy. It runs a little hot, but not too bad. Get one with one pci slot and one agp if you do end up getting one. I have seen them now with 3 pci slots. His isnt very loud, but im not a good judge cuz my box is like a jet lol

**cysus** · April 4th, 2004, 09:19 PM

Wait till we see how the new socket CPUs from Intel preform before you upgrade, shouldn't be more than a month or two now.

**StealthyV** · April 4th, 2004, 10:07 PM

you're talking about mini-itx standard. I have one and it's a great little puter. the mobo measures 17cm x 17cm and has about everything onboard, including lan and s-video out. they're not built for gaming (8mb onboard vid isn't nearly enough) and the processors are soldered onto the board, making upgrades not an option. I have the 800mhz C3 Samuel Via board...works great. I'm actually planning on selling my system for starting bid of $399 on ebay...need cash for a more capable system.
you should look at the Shuttle barebones systems, specifically the intel-based 533/800mhz fsb systems on NewEgg...this is the Shuttle one a buddy of mine has, very happy with it.

the shuttle system I mention here is the SFF (small form factor) standard...and is becoming more popular because the processors are easily upgradeable and are def more powerful than the mini-itx standard.
gl!

~branson

**cyphen** · April 4th, 2004, 10:24 PM

What new CPUs are those?

Shawn - thanks, yes i do 3drendering and media post production, which is why i was leaning toward a dually. I have the first gen Tyan K7 thunder dual AMD with 1.2 (non-MP - before they locked them out) and i use that for post right now. They have a BIOS upgrade for it now that will let me put 2.8s in, but it can only handle PC2100 ram, and has to be registered. I only have 512 MB in it now, and getting a gig and a half seems to be a bit cost-prohibitive. (stupid registered ram!) That's my production machine.

Anyway, I'm gonna go ahead with that upgrade regardless to make that machine "all that it can be". I've got a nice array in it, and i think it still has a little life left in it.

My main usage machine is the original Asus A7V with a gig of PC100 SDRAM, and a Gigahertz proc. So that machine is maxed out. It can't be much more than it is right now. I haven't really built a new machine in a while, and want to move up to the "now", so to speak.

About the BOX, i wasn't looking at cheaping out, i just liked the small footprint of it, but if it runs hot, then i'm not so sure. It's a lot nicer than having the traditional bulky tower.

tg88, you said it runs a little hot - if you push the proc to the max for a while - a few to several hours (as you would with a 3drender) - you think it would lock up? Is the chipset very good?

cysus - what's intel coming out with? and how are AMDs stacking up to Intels these days? I know that hyperthreading makes Intels show up as multiprocessors, how do they compare to the latest from AMD? Sorry, but like i said - i've kinda been outta the loop for a bit...

oh, and thanks for all the replies - i'll check all those links out...

**cysus** · April 5th, 2004, 12:32 AM

Originally posted by cyphen
cysus - what's intel coming out with? and how are AMDs stacking up to Intels these days? I know that hyperthreading makes Intels show up as multiprocessors, how do they compare to the latest from AMD? Sorry, but like i said - i've kinda been outta the loop for a bit...

1. it is not so much a new processor but a new socket for the prescott and future Intel CPU's, new motherboards are coming out for them soon
2. Most would say that AMD is winning over Intel and I'd agree, but that may change soon.
3. Hyperthreading allows a CPU to basicly be used better for day to day activities, it has little to no effect on games and other programs that put a heavy load on the CPU.

You sould look at some of these reviews before deciding.
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20031223/index.html
also this shows some of the upcoming products for Intel.
http://www.tomshardware.com/business...2004_1-03.html
At this point I wouldn't buy anything that doesn't have PCI Express, an upcoming video card interface to take the place of agp.

Here's the ideal thing to look for...(won't be out yet but in the next few months...)
An AMD64 motherboard that has both PCI express16x and agp, DDR and DDRII support, PCI and PCI express ports, serial ATA, IDE connectors and gigabite lan.
This motherboard would be "future proof"

**cyphen** · April 5th, 2004, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by cysus
This motherboard would be "future proof"

for about 6 months!

thanks cysus - appreciate it. I'll have to read up on DDR II I remember hearing about it a while ago, but never read anything on it. Although i did just read am interesting article on tomshardware regarding the effect of highger CAS Latency and CAS to RAS Latency(etc) timings on high speed systems. The effect between best/middle/and worst case scenarios was negligible. looked to be (without doing the actual math) between a 0-2% difference across the board. Interesting...

**John Prophet** · April 5th, 2004, 01:03 AM

--->and how are AMDs stacking up to Intels these days?

----

I am under the impression that the pendulum has swung back to AMD being the biggest and baddest.

**cysus** · April 5th, 2004, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by cyphen
for about 6 months!

Think about how long agp has been around, PCI express with be around for years, and DDRII will be around for a while as well. It may not be the best for more than 6 months but it will be very upgradable, which seem to be what you've been doing in your other machines. It's alot better than 2 months anyway

...I did put it in quotes

**teengeek88** · April 5th, 2004, 01:53 AM

i got this when they werent really heard of and it was pretty cheap so the chipset isnt that good. i know you can get the biostar one with the nf2 + igp and thats a good chipset

idk about the 3d rendering question, never really tested it

and my standard might be high when it comes to cooling

the cpu runs at about 50 degress celcius