Gaming/3D Modeling PC  | | | 
December 12th, 2008, 04:15 PM
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#1 (permalink)
| | Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 33
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Budget 1500 willing to go higher for good reason. Quote: I need help to build my system! I want a computer that can handle up-to-date games and 3d applications with ease. Also a good enough system that I won't have to upgrade for a while. I need a good mouse, speakers, and monitor too!
I want the most bang for the buck ofcourse.
I don't know what overclocking, RAID, or Crossfire means. Is this important for what I want?
Sephiroth_VII
Last edited by Sephiroth_VII : December 12th, 2008 at 04:22 PM.
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December 12th, 2008, 05:39 PM
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#2 (permalink)
| | PC Upgrade Procrastinator
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesota
Posts: 6,200
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Well if your doing a new build, I'd forget about the older Socket 775 platform & go straight for Core i7's Socket 1366...
for starters, the base Quad is good: Newegg.com - Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor - Processors - Desktops
(also with this new platform from what I've read, intel has basically reintroduced Hyper Threading, so some OS's should see the Quad core as a virtual 8 core CPU)
Decent Mobo (only Intels X58 based boards are out on market for these new CPU's, but most support Crossfire AND SLI, some support 3 Way SLI as well): Newegg.com - Foxconn Renaissance LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard - Intel Motherboards
Case is Personal Preference: Newegg.com - NZXT Guardian 921 CS-NT-GD921-B Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Computer Cases
Bit more price, but one of the fastest Factory OC'd 4870's out, 815MHz on the core: Newegg.com - ASUS EAH4870 DK TOP/HTDI/512MD5 Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Desktop Graphics / Video Cards
Existing HDD you had is good: Newegg.com - Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - Internal Hard Drives
though I'd grab at least a second drive for a scratch drive if using 3D apps or Photoshop type apps. either a 2nd one of these, or grab 2 smaller drives (16MB cache drives for cheaper) & run them RAID 0 if your also going to be doing anything like recording ingame video with FRAPS or anything... or Run them in RAID 1 for backup, or even RAID 5...
its up to you on the drive storage issues, but for starters the one you have now is a good start (also the mobo I selected has many stock reference settings/designs so it should be nice & stable, but also has 2 SAS drive connectors & not sure how they are on that board, read one review about them not being stable or something like that, some sort of issues, so that person shut them off, but SAS is Serial Attached SCSI, basically SATA's counterpart like regular SCSI was to ATA/PATA, much faster drive speeds, but also at a high cost.)
RAM: Newegg.com - G.SKILL 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Desktop Memory
DDR3 1333 speeds, some of the lowest CAS rating out of the list there, 6GB (more than 4, less than 8, like you have selected for the older Quad setup, no real need for more than 4GB right now anyways, at least for gaming, the other apps though, more RAM "Can" help, but usually only up to a point, add in this kit will enable you to run Triple Channel RAM on the mobo too)
PSU: Newegg.com - CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Power Supplies
good quality/Brand, quite a bit more, but has 4x 6+2 pin PCIE connectors, ATX & EPS 12v support, etc etc... should be enough power for now, even with 2 or 3 vid cards in there 
DVD Burners: Newegg.com - SAMSUNG Black 22X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 16X DVD+R DL 22X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 22X DVD Burner - CD / DVD Burners (picked this one because the Lightscribe version is out of stock) Newegg.com - LG Black 22X (CAV) DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 16X DVD+R DL 22X (CAV) DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe - CD / DVD Burners
chose 2 different brand DVD drives, mainly because as many will know with PC gaming, thanks to the damned Securom crap & other DRM management/media checking software, some drives don't "play" nice with the software, even after a firmware update... 2 drives, by two manufacturer's can sometimes reduce the chances of that happening, if it doesn't work in one drive, use the other, etc.
Mouse is personal Preference, but I'd recommend one of Logitech or Razer's Laser Gaming Mice, either Wired or Wireless thats another personal preference...
me personally I prefer the more ergonomic design of Logitechs older G5 & G7 (have both, but my G7's buttons started to malfunction & not work right after about a years worth of gaming), I also dabble with some 3D apps as well, basically loading downloaded models, with backdrop images, editing lighting effects etc, to make 3D Desktop images, mainly use Carrara 6 for that stuff. but the Logitech design is nice & comfortable for long use for stuff like that, don't care much for Razer's more flat style of mice. but thats my preference, your's may be different.
Speakers... thats hard to say, you looking for a 5.1 setup or what?
some like me prefer to plug into a 5.1 Home Theater instead of dedicated PC gaming speakers.
Monitor, someone else will have to help with that, I know a few things about them, but not as much as I should, just that the bigger the screen the better, & preferably one with 1080 resolution, or at least 1680x1050 minimum should be recommended, as far as LCD screens go. also faster response time helps too.
Total for all the parts I linked to, is $1388.90, not factoring in $80 of Mail in Rebates, also price factors in 2 of the Hard drives, & no mouse, keyboard, Monitor, Speakers & OS (Vista Home Premium 64-bit at least).
Monitor your looking at anywhere from $150-200 for a good one, OS, is maybe less than $100, speakers depending on what you get, anywhere from $50-100 for a decent set (roughly same range if you grab a 5.1 or surround sound Headset instead), Mouse good laser gaming mouse will run at least $50 on up to $80.
Good Gaming Sound card if you feel you need one over the onboard on the motherboard (or prefer not to use the 4870's Audio Processing), will set you back between $70 & $200. But I'd see how the onboard or Radeon's Audio is before doing that. Currently on my 2nd PC, an AMD X2 system, I'm using the Radeon 2600 Pro's audio for my output, at least I have it selected in WinXP's audio settings, but somehow outputs through the motherboards audio outputs... its not too bad, but I have some crap speakers on that system.
but at least the CPU, Mobo, RAM, PSU, & HDD will be as up to date & "future upgrade resistant" as possible.
could shave off some pricing by going with a bit cheaper Mobo, cheapest right now for X58 was like $225, drop the Radeon 4870 to a more conservative stock speed one for just under $200...
go with a 4GB DDR3-1333 or even DDR3 1066 kit for a bit less.
go with 1 HDD for now, drop down to 1 DVD Burner...
its very possible to knock off $200 of the total easily.
Dropping the samsung DVDRW, 1 HDD...
Changed to these parts instead: Newegg.com - POWERCOLOR AX4870 512MD5 Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Desktop Graphics / Video Cards Newegg.com - G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Desktop Memory Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-EX58-DS4 LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard - Intel Motherboards
total comes to $1,170.92 subtract another $60 in MIR's & your looking at just over $1100 before shipping for the build, should be enough to add in a good LCD, OS, Mouse & even "Decent" Speakers. leaving enough room to splurge a bit more past $1500 budget if needed.
__________________ i7 920@2.66//MSI X58 Platinum//3GB DDR3 1333//GTX285 680/1476/1250//9800GTX 675/1688/1100//HTO Striker 7.1//Corsair 750TX//Tt Armor//Win7 64//250GB, 2x250GB RAID 0, 500GB, 74GB  TechIMO Folding@home Team #111 - Crunching for the cure! | |
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December 13th, 2008, 01:31 AM
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#3 (permalink)
| | Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 33
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December 13th, 2008, 02:33 AM
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#4 (permalink)
| | PC Upgrade Procrastinator
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesota
Posts: 6,200
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ahhhhh, alright, then you WILL NEED XP 64 bit then, you CAN NOT utilized more than 4GB of TOTAL memory (System Memory, Video Card, Cache memory from CPU, HDD's, etc etc, Combined).
32-bit Windows can only Address up to 4GB maximum for Memory, 64-bit will allow up to at least 128GB.
honestly if your wanting a top end to really good gaming & even 3D graphics creation/editing rig, your pretty much shit out of luck staying with 32-bit OS, unless your willing to stay with a single 512MB to 1GB "near" top of line Gaming Video card, but it leaves little room to upgrade down the road.
with the constant rising memory capacity of video cards for gaming, as well as Program & OS requirements. take for example, say you grabbed yourself one of those 2GB equipped Radeon 4870x2 cards, ok, 2GB minus 4GB max memory, leaves you with less than 2GB total available addressable system RAM for the OS & everything else... (especially with one or more 32MB cache HDD's, 1 or 2 2MB Cache DVDRW's, 8MB or more L1 & L2 cache on CPU, add that to the 2GB subtracted from 4GB max, you can see where this is going very quickly...
honestly there's very little reason not to upgrade to Vista 64-bit in your situation. (Better Driver support, as well as longer driver support down the road than XP 64-bit, use of more than 4GB RAM, DirectX 10 which is NOT available for XP period whether its 32 or 64 bit, etc) Newegg.com - Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit English for System Builders 1pk DSP OEI DVD - Operating Systems
but if your intent on not moving to Vista, then at least grab WinXP Pro 64-bit then. Newegg.com - Microsoft Windows XP Professional 64Bit SP2C for System Builders - Operating Systems
grab only 4GB max System RAM, even though you won't be able to use all of it for now if you grab XP 32-bit, but wait for Windows 7 to come out down the road.
grab no more than a 1GB Video card, at most that should still allow you to use just under 3GB total RAM for rest of the system out of the 4GB mac.
Last edited by ShyguyXPC : December 13th, 2008 at 02:35 AM.
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December 13th, 2008, 06:17 AM
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#5 (permalink)
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 33
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Here's what were looking at now, its getting pricey. I know I could get a cheaper mouse and keyboard but I really love how they match with the case so perfectly. The mouse has high percision too, Which I will need for making textures. I'm not concerned about sound that much, as long as its decent for playing games. I decided to go ahead and get vista. Sorry for my ignorance lol. This will be my first build. I'm new to all this... Prices are rounded as I see fit. Quote:
Does all this fit with the case?
Last edited by Sephiroth_VII : December 14th, 2008 at 03:59 PM.
Reason: FINAL CONFIG
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December 13th, 2008, 10:08 AM
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#6 (permalink)
| | PC Upgrade Procrastinator
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesota
Posts: 6,200
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HDMI is in the hardware not the output ports, if its got the converter then it puts out to HDMI.
The DVI port can put out normal DVI as well as HDMI, its also how they output the HDMI audio Processing capability of the Radeon HD series.
for the whole HD thing, depends, Bluray will out put to 1080 HD, DVD won't, or normally doesn't... it will upconvert, depending on the video sometimes it can look ok, other times it looks like crap.
But seeing as there is talk now that Bluray won the format war, Bluray may be on its way out... I forget all the details, but one of the big corporations, Samsung or one of them, was quoted a while back saying that Bluray is officially dead or on its way out or something.
the only Benefit Bluray has going for it self right now on PC's, is storage ability, backing up data to burnable BR discs... but considering the price per disc, and burn speeds, as well as price for a burner, it makes better economical sense to just burn multiple DVD Dual layers or buy a Hard drive or several drives for the same price.
but the HD thing for Gaming & some downloadable content (HD DLC is also a reason Bluray is not doing as well as it could be), makes it worth it many times. paired with a good video card like the HD4870 gaming can be quite good as well as hardware video encoding/decoding.
with PC's though you have to make sure that with most if not all HD content, the Video card & Display & what ever other HD components need to be HDCP compliant, High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , basically a hardware level based DRM/anti-piracy measure.
the 4870 I know is, the monitor you have selected should be too if its a full 1080 HD display.
gotta get ready for work here, but so far list looks good, it is a bit pricey, but think of it this way, if you were to pay for a comparable Pre-built, from Alienware (one of the cheapest top rated custom gaming PC company's), or any others, you'd be well into the 2-3 grand range by now, easily. | |
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December 14th, 2008, 03:16 AM
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#7 (permalink)
| | Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 33
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Decided to change monitor to this and forget HDMI. Newegg.com - Hanns·G HB-191DPB Black 19" 5ms DVI Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 2400:1(DCR) Built in Speakers - LCD Monitors
130$
Now I'm concerned about that graphics card you told me to get
One person in the bad review said it's DVI don't work with certain monitors. Quote: Cons: This card is incompatible using DVI with some monitors. If you go to ati's website and look on their forums, there is a 20+ page thread of people who cannot use Catalyst drivers in vista with their monitors using the DVI cable.
Is this even possible???????? Well apprently yes, because ATI has an entry in their knowledge base about it dating back to last year.
I have a Sceptre 20.1 C Gamer LCD and can only use the VGA cable because of this card and its drivers in Vista.
How could the drivers be so incompetent as to make a freaking every day common retail monitor unsuable. Just lazy and inexcusible.
Dont think its just me. Check out the thread before you buy this or any 4850 or 4870. People listed acer/samsung/viewsonic/sceptre - all kinds of models that exibit this behavior with these drivers in vista. |
So, anything I should know about putting it together? I'm just gonna plug and screw everything in turn it on, install vista, then deal with all the driver crap. I guess I have to put the RAM in three slots of the same color...(that Mobo has 3 orange and 3 black slots)
I want it all to just work perfectly and nothing fuck up, no returns or anything.
Thx alot for all your help. Your the best of three different forums!
Last edited by Sephiroth_VII : December 14th, 2008 at 03:29 AM.
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December 14th, 2008, 12:24 PM
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#8 (permalink)
| | PC Upgrade Procrastinator
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesota
Posts: 6,200
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yeah usually the RAM goes in like-colored slots to obtain Dual or Triple channel, but you'll have to confirm that in the motherboards manual to be sure.
everything should be easy to put together, just remember to take your time, check, double check & triple check to make sure all connections are setup properly, & should power on properly the first time (the only things that should give troubles if done properly is defective components), the last 3 systems I've built have all powered on exactly as should the first time, mainly because I took my time to ensure the proper connections, no parts are shorting out like maybe a motherboard standoff touching the back of the board where it shouldn't be or something like that.
That DVI connector issue seems to be some sort of issue common among most if not all Radeon HD4850/4870 cards...
not sure which monitors will & won't work, but that aside the 4870 is still one of the best bang for buck single GPU cards out there. the only one slightly better, but a good $100-150 more is the Geforce GTX 280, then you move up to the Dual GPU cards, the Radeon 4850x2 (for same price as a 280, you can grab one of these, but so far they are the LONGEST Gaming cards made, even longer than their big brother the 4870x2  ) & 4870x2 (the older Geforce 9800GX2 is more in line with the top end single GPU cards, or just a bit ahead of them in some instances, but the 9800GX2 is hard to find now, some time next year nvidia should be coming out with GX2 variants of the current GTX cards from what I've read)
another option that would be in your price range for that 4870 card, if the DVI issue worries you, is grab a Geforce GTX260 (the 192 stream processor 260 performs a bit under the 4870, & the 216 Stream processor variant is about on par with the 4870, the 192 SP card starts around $200 now, with the 216 SP one being closer to where that Asus 4870 starts)
I haven't heard of anything like that for the GTX cards (DVI issue), but that doesn't necessarily mean it won't happen.
GTX260 192 Stream Processor cards: Newegg.com - 192 processing cores, GeForce GTX 260, GeForce GTX 200 Series, PCI Express 2.0 x16, NVIDIA, Desktop Graphics / Video Cards, Video Cards ...
GTX260 216 Stream Processor cards: Newegg.com - 216 processing cores, GeForce GTX 260, GeForce GTX 200 Series, PCI Express 2.0 x16, NVIDIA, Desktop Graphics / Video Cards, Video Cards ...
any of the brands listed are good ones, but the usual picks are eVGA, XFX & BFG. all 3 of those also have the free Far Cry 2 game deal with them as well | |
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December 15th, 2008, 02:54 PM
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#9 (permalink)
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 33
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People from other forums keep saying to not get vista 64 bit, because it won't run anything. Kind of discouraging..
And someone said that the OEM of vista is illegal. If it's illegal then why would newegg allow you to purchase it?
The reason I have time to check a million times If I'm doing the right thing is well, I won't be able to buy anything until after Christmas. | |
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December 15th, 2008, 03:05 PM
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#10 (permalink)
| | voids warrantys
Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: In my room
Posts: 12,915
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OEM is completely legal. Whatever forum told you that you need to stop going to. No telling what other mis-information they are pumping out.
Vista 64bit does have some compatibility problems. But most of the time that is with older hardware. Like printers, scanners, etc. If everything is new, you won't have any issues. | 
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