Boy, am I behind in technology

[wju425]

I used to be pretty active here and keeping up with the techies but my interests went to guitars and guns so I'm active in their forums.

Now my system's working pretty good and all that but I want to get a combo with memory for backup but looking in Newegg shocked me. We have 8 cores now ?? Jeez, where have I been?

I'm not looking for the latest but rather last year's technology so to speak. Right now I have an AMD2 3800+ on MSI K9MM-V with 3 gig memory. I don't like onboard sound and video so I have Creative Sound Audigy and Nvidia 6200 in it. It's very stable but nothing lasts forever don't they? I can't remember how long I had this system but I'm going to say at least 4-5 years.

I use my system for internet, games and playing movies & music. I have a good idea that an AMD3+ is an upgrade but I see others like i5, i6, whatever which I know nothing about. I prefer AMD but I'm open to suggestions.

I think I can get a decent mobo, cpu and mems for under $300. What say y'all?

Thanks for any suggestions and I browsed Newegg but I can't decide. Buy the combo or get the mobo and the cpu separately. I wonder if I should stick with the MSI brand mobo as it's been rock solid. By the way, I'm not interested in OCing.

[ShyguyXPC]

Budget, Intel is the way to go right now.


Intel Celeron Dual Core or Pentium "G" Series Dual core, H77 motherboard, and DDR3 RAM.

Currently AMD's budget boards (Socket FM1 and FM2) which are good performers still lag behind Intel's offerings.

for that price Range Intel is the best option, for the $100-150 Range, most AMD's will be fine, though Intel's are often similar in performance (Intel's performance per core is still much better than AMD's, so AMD needs more cores to compete, AMD Quad's are comparable to Intel Core i3 and i5 Dual cores).

Tad over $200 for this list of core parts.


Newegg.com - Intel Core i3-3220 Ivy Bridge 3.3GHz LGA 1155 55W Dual-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 2500 BX80637i33220

Newegg.com - BIOSTAR H77MU3 LGA 1155 Intel H77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

Mobo currently has a free kit of 8GB DDR3 1600Mhz Patriot RAM with it,

Newegg.com - Patriot Gamer 2 Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model PGD38G1600ELK

That kit is included free with the mobo, so its $40 in savings.

Though you'll need a PCI Express Sound card with that board, so if your Creative card isn't PCIe it will need to be replaced.

PCIe Sound cards on a budget and fairly decent for the most part.


Newegg.com - ASUS Xonar DGX 5.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Express x1 Interface Gaming Audio Card

Newegg.com - ASUS Xonar DSX 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Express x1 Interface Audio Card


Not sure what games you play, but I wouldn't look at anything less than a Radeon HD 7750 or 7770 or better.

Or Nvidia Geforce GTX 650 or 650 Ti or better.

You'll also probably want to factor in a New Power Supply into the system, since, if your system you have now is that old, you'll want a new efficient PSU for the new one, since they can age and degrade over time.

[wju425]

The games I play are rather simple like puzzles and word games but the only graphical game I play is Duke Nukem 3d. Yea it's old but fun. Seeing that there's other factors like the PCIe and power supply I think I'm better off getting a barebone system.

Thanks, I'll probably have to save up a few more cents.

EDIT: My local PC outlet have this. Looks pretty good to me though it has onboard sound and video. I might be able to use my cards still.

(copied and pasted)

Base Configuration :
Processor:
AMD Athlon II X2 250 Regor 3.0GHz
2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM3 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor

NEW
Motherboard:
MSI 760GM-P23 AM3+ Motherboard
Supports Up to The NEW FX-6100 Processor
Onboard Video DVI / VGA, 8 Channel Sound, Gigabit Ethernet Port for High Speed Internet
6x USB Ports, 6x Sata II Ports,1x PCI-e x16,
2x PCI Slots, 1x PCI-e x1

NEW
Memory:
4GB DDR3 PC10600 1333MHz Memory
Upgradeable to 16GB

NEW
Hard Drive:
500GB 3.5" SATA III 7200 RPM Hard Drive

Optical Drive:
DVD RW (Rewriter) Drive with Burning Software Drives will Play & Burn: CD's, DVD's, DL DVD's

Case:
Case Material Metal (Steel)
Color Black & Gray
Main Board Standard ATX / Micro ATX

Windows Is not Included But available.

ONLY
$369.00

[stroyal]

In general round numbers the I-3 Shyguy posted is more than twice as fast, as that AthlonII X2 250, and over 4 times faster than your present processor.

PassMark Software - CPU Benchmark Charts

3800+ 1096
Athlon II 250 1777
I-3 3220 4339

I've never been a fan boy, and in the past choose Intel, and AMD depending on the best bang for your buck.

Unfortunately I can see no reason what so ever to go with AMD with what they have to offer.

In my opinion, even for a budget machine, AMD is overpriced, but I don't see how they can get any lower.

It's just a shame.


Oh, you have to take Passmark with a grain of salt, as it can be inaccurate with 2 CPUs close in performance, but these 3 are so far apart, it should be pretty accurate.

The problem being, we don't know what these computers have for the rest of the components.

[stroyal]

Even this $60 Celly, is faster than the 250

Passmark 2295

Newegg.com - Intel Celeron G555 Sandy Bridge 2.7GHz LGA 1155 Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80623G555

The only advantage in performance AMD has, is their on-board graphics, is better than Intels.

That is a moot point to any gamer.

[ShyguyXPC]

actually doing some research last night for a possible HTPC for myself, AMD's new Socket FM2 Trinity Chips can match some of Intel's lower Budget chips like the Celeron G 540, they have to run at over 1GHz faster to do it, but for $50 it can match most of the lower Celeron Sandy/Ivy Bridge Socket 1155 chips.

Plus add in the superior Graphic chip built in, and its a winning combo.

Socket support is a bit limited, since FM1 and FM2 are a bit more niche market than regular AM3+, but I started off with a 2.4GHz Celeron dual core Sandy bridge chip and Mini ITX H67 Chipset mobo, the onboard Graphics would be ok, but for the price, I could have an AMD Dual Core at 3.4/3.6GHz, with Radeon 7400/7500 Graphics and a Micro ATX board with reasonable upgrade routes, for the same (though there's no decent Mini ITX boards so had to choose Micro ATX for list, which means finding a good Micro ATX case thats small, yet not compromising in upgrade space, read: Not Slim size)

Newegg.com - AMD A4-5300 Trinity 3.4GHz (3.6GHz Turbo) Socket FM2 65W Dual-Core Desktop APU (CPU + GPU) with DirectX 11 Graphic AMD Radeon HD 7480D AD5300OKHJBOX

Newegg.com - ASRock FM2A75M-DGS FM2 AMD A75 (Hudson D3) SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard

since I already have a 4GB Stick of DDR3 1333MHz RAM, I Intend to use that.

But for the price, its not a bad deal, and has a decent GPU, so no need for that.

I just need a good mATX case, and already have one in mind.

as to the HDD, since initially my needs won't be much more beyond web surfing and playing DVD's, until I get a more sizable Blu Ray collection (Currently only have 2 Blu Ray discs), I don't need to worry about adding more drive storage at this point. I Do have an 80GB Velociraptor I can use in this, so no problems there.

And the 2 programs I'm looking at are using XBMC, both OpenELEC 2.0 (which is basically a fast loading Appliance, turn on PC, boot up and boom its loaded.

no heavy bloated underlying OS to stall the boot up, and its very capable of the basics. for a bit more robust and capable things, XBMCBuntu would come into play.


And If I had to, I could Triple boot into Windows XP Media Center Edition, though it wouldn't support Blu Ray Playback, but for Windows software and what not it would be fine.


I have the DVD Drive, HDD (would still need to buy a Blu Ray Drive though), RAM, and PSU, just need a good case and the CPU/Mobo.

Though for the price, a cheap 4GB Stick of DDR3 1600 or higher would be valuable as well.

for the budget, its what I would consider though.

Newegg.com - CORSAIR XMS 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2000 (PC3 16000) Desktop Memory Model CMX4GX3M2B2000C9

for my uses, 4GB will be enough, especially dealing with 32-bit OS's and such, since the on CPU Graphics will use mobo RAM for memory, the faster the better.

so this would suit me.


That same list of parts, would be under $200, and would also allow you to still use your existing add in cards, since it has a PCI slot, and PCI Express x16 slot.

Though if your ATI Radeon 2600 is an AGP Card (There are no Nvidia 2600's, so assuming its a Radeon 2600, or your Nvidia is something else beyond a 2600 designation), then you'd have to lose it, but the graphics on the CPU are at least 3 to 4 times more powerful than the old 2600's anyways, at least...

If your really on a budget, I'd consider that, the newer AMD Socket FM2 and DDR3 platform.

Its actually only weeks old, as the FM2's came out the first week of this month, so you'd be getting modern tech, and still be able to use your older parts, at least most of them.

Only down side would be if your Hard drives are PATA/IDE, you might need a new HDD that is SATA. Same with DVD Drive.


Lacking the OS, a cheap build like this could be done...

Newegg.com - AMD A4-5300 Trinity 3.4GHz (3.6GHz Turbo) Socket FM2 65W Dual-Core Desktop APU (CPU + GPU) with DirectX 11 Graphic AMD Radeon HD 7480D AD5300OKHJBOX

Newegg.com - ASRock FM2A75M-DGS FM2 AMD A75 (Hudson D3) SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard

Newegg.com - CORSAIR XMS 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2000 (PC3 16000) Desktop Memory Model CMX4GX3M2B2000C9

Newegg.com - Seagate Barracuda ST1000DM003 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

Newegg.com - LITE-ON DVD Burner - Bulk 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model iHAS124-04 - CD / DVD Burners

Newegg.com - Antec VP-450 450W ATX 12V v2.3 Power Supply

Newegg.com - Fractal Design Core 1000 Micro ATX Computer Case w/ 1 x 120mm fan


case doesn't leave much for tidying away excess cables, but for a build like that, low power consumption and heat, not much "Airflow" is really needed anyways, just cram excess cables in open drive bays and its done.


But its a good cooling case for the price, and small.



but total comes to just under $360 as well.

CPU should be as good, if not better than the Athlon II X2 Dual core, plus faster RAM, and actually has a "newer" GPU on the CPU, so no need to get a new Graphics card, or even use the old one for that matter.



For about the same price, you could also pop in an Intel Socket 1155 H61 Chipset Motherboard, DDR3 1333MHz RAM instead (save a little on that), and a Sandy Bridge Based Celeron or Pentium G Series Dual core, that would perform similar, and actually slightly better in single threaded applications (Single Core) than the AMD setup, but for Multi Threaded apps, and graphics related stuff the AMD is the better choice in this price range.


I know you mentioned Duke Nukem 3D as your most graphic game, but with the AMD setup, you could easily run Duke Nukem Forever, maybe not on max settings, but it would definitely run.

[Networker4321]

Even this $60 Celly, is faster than the 250

Passmark 2295

Newegg.com - Intel Celeron G555 Sandy Bridge 2.7GHz LGA 1155 Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80623G555

The only advantage in performance AMD has, is their on-board graphics, is better than Intels.

That is a moot point to any gamer.

Stroyal, I am confused. I take you to mean that for any gamer, better graphics is better? (As it would be )

I understand the moot implication but something struck me wrong,,,

[ShyguyXPC]

He means any "Gamer" would have a dedicated stand alone Graphics card, rather than using Onboard Graphics.


which is true, but from a budget gaming stand point, the AMD is the clear winner as well.


but for a REAL Gaming rig, a higher end higher performing Dedicated card would be the choice...


Here's the thing, if your not into buying $200 video cards, and can get by fine at the $100 range of performance, with the AMD FM1 and FM2 Fusion platforms, you can easily pair a similarly low end $50-70 range Graphics card with the On Chip Graphics for Crossfire.


For example, with the Socket FM1 CPU's and their Radeon HD 6500 Graphics, you can easily pair it with a Radeon HD 6500 Graphics card, for Crossfire mode, and attain near 6700 range performance.



Not sure how the FM2 chips work, since they have 7400/7500 graphics and there is nothing below 7700 series cards, which wouldn't run in Crossfire with the 7400/7500 graphics.


Anyways, thats what Stroyal was saying.

[stroyal]

Yep, that's what I meant, and I didn't mean to discount the AMD on-board, since it is a budget gaming solution.

I just don't think of hard core gamers, being on a budget.

AFAIK the fastest AMD CPUs, coupled with high end graphics cards, can still handle most if not all games on high setting.

Is this still true Shyguy?

I Flight Sim, and need the best CPU money can buy, for high settings. (going for an I-7 next time, soon)
Many programs need a better CPU, than games.

[Networker4321]

He means any "Gamer" would have a dedicated stand alone Graphics card, rather than using Onboard Graphics.


which is true, but from a budget gaming stand point, the AMD is the clear winner as well.


but for a REAL Gaming rig, a higher end higher performing Dedicated card would be the choice...


Here's the thing, if your not into buying $200 video cards, and can get by fine at the $100 range of performance, with the AMD FM1 and FM2 Fusion platforms, you can easily pair a similarly low end $50-70 range Graphics card with the On Chip Graphics for Crossfire.


For example, with the Socket FM1 CPU's and their Radeon HD 6500 Graphics, you can easily pair it with a Radeon HD 6500 Graphics card, for Crossfire mode, and attain near 6700 range performance.



Not sure how the FM2 chips work, since they have 7400/7500 graphics and there is nothing below 7700 series cards, which wouldn't run in Crossfire with the 7400/7500 graphics.


Anyways, thats what Stroyal was saying.

Shy,

I get it,,, I just joined XPC forum, what is your username over there?

Getting ready to do a new build. ordered case and PSU. I have mobo, mem, from RMA's that have been returned, had to buy an i5 but had a cooler/fan for that and plenty of thermal paste. Can't wait to get that GTX 295 back up and running,,

It's been awhile. I have finally bought an OEM copy of Win 7 Pro (64 bit) so that's my OS of choice moving forward.

Glad to hear Intel still doing well, since that's what I bought.

Thanks! You too Stroyal!

[ShyguyXPC]

yeah, most can still handle games on high settings, but even then, some of the top end CPU's sometimes struggle, I know Solo has struggled a bit with his AMD 8 core FX, and has been talking about upgrading to the newer PileDriver FX models. though could be issues with his board, but its more or less Over clocking related issues.

But he'd be able to better chime in on that stuff, as I'm still mainly Intel since I switched in 2006 or so.


which is why I'm considering AMD again on the budget end, thinking I would like to do an AMD build for my brothers newer rig if possible.


Thing with the CPU stuff though, is it comes down to whether the software (Games or Programs) are Single Threaded or Multi Threaded, and which CPU is better for that. AMD and Intel have pro's and cons for each.

Intels are still top dog no matter what, depends on how much you have to spend, but when you only have so much, then you need to start comparing price vs performance for your needs.

[ShyguyXPC]

Shy,

I get it,,, I just joined XPC forum, what is your username over there?

Getting ready to do a new build. ordered case and PSU. I have mobo, mem, from RMA's that have been returned, had to buy an i5 but had a cooler/fan for that and plenty of thermal paste. Can't wait to get that GTX 295 back up and running,,

It's been awhile. I have finally bought an OEM copy of Win 7 Pro (64 bit) so that's my OS of choice moving forward.

Glad to hear Intel still doing well, since that's what I bought.

Thanks! You too Stroyal!

Same as here, just minus the XPC on my name.


Thats why I'm ShyguyXPC over here, Shyguy was already taken when I joined, so I had to slap something on the end of it, since I came over from XPC since most of the members were from here and SysOpt, I slapped XPC on the end of my name.

[wju425]

Thanks y'all, it'll take me a while to assimilate the info but I like your suggestions Shyguy.

By the way my video card is Nvidia GeForce 2600 256mg AGP card and my 500gig drive is SATA. I plan to use my old P2 case (did all my builds in it) and I did upgrade the PW but I'll have to look how many watts that is.

[ShyguyXPC]

There were no 2600's for Geforce, I should know, I've had every generation of Geforce since the Geforce 2. They didn't start 4 digit model numbers until the Geforce 4 Ti Series.

Only Nvidia product with a 2600 model number is the newer Nvidia Tegra processors for mobile devices.


ATI had a 2600 Pro and 2600 XT series card though, I have a PCIe 2600 Pro.

Otherwise, maybe your card is a 5600 AGP, or even Ti 4600 AGP?


But 256MB Memory would put it in the Geforce 6 series range, unless it was an odd ball 3rd party model from before that, with extra RAM. if its 6 series, then it could be a 6600/6600 LE/6600GT.


Anyways, regardless its AGP and won't work in newer hardware.


but if your old HDD is SATA, you could reuse that if its still fast enough for your needs, or if you need more storage, then a 2nd 500GB drive, or even that Seagate I linked above, would run much faster.

You could even opt for a Solid State Drive for about the same price, has less storage, but use the OS and frequent use Apps on the SSD, and games and other software on the regular HDD.

a good 60GB SSD costs about $50-75 these days.



yeah, I'd check that PSU, as well as find out what Brand and Model it is.

Many newer boards and platforms need that extra 4 Pin Aux 12V connector besides the 20+4 or 24 Pin Main connector, so would need to find that info out.

about how long ago was the PSU upgraded?

[wju425]

The PW does have that 4 pin Aux 12V connector and THE PW IS OKIA LC-8460BTX 450 WATT.

Anyway Aida32 says the video card is Nvidia GeForce 2600 so whether that's right or not I don't care. It works.

Before we get carried away I only wanted a backup mobo, cpu and mems and still be able to reuse most of my stuff. I'm tempted to get the goodies but the money is tight and I'm saving up right now but I'm going to get some stuff put on CL and sell 'em. It's mostly extra guitar stuff I have stashed away. I'm not playing much anymore so I don't see why I'm keeping the stuff. Two guitars, two amps and a pedal are staying, the rest can go.

[ShyguyXPC]

yeah, not sure on the PSU brand, I have heard of them before, just not sure if their a quality brand, if JP Miller were on, he could chime in on it, but for $40 or less you can stuff a good 450W newer Antec in there as well.

if your reusing old parts, the HDD can be reused, just a new Mobo/CPU and RAM, and maybe DVD Drive, if your old one is an IDE drive and not SATA based, but for $15-20 its not bad.

[wju425]

Yea, the DVD drive is IDE.

[wju425]

I just realized I made a typo, the video card is Geforce 6200. Duh.

[ShyguyXPC]

thats more like it LOL, 6200 would make more sense. And given what it is, the graphics on an AMD CPU is at least.... don't quote me, but wouldn't surprise me, 5-10 times better. 6200 was pretty low end, and 2 generations before Programmable shader cores came into their own with Geforce 8 and Radeon HD 2000 series, and have since evolved at least 2 times to current tech.

[wju425]

Got a question, what the turbo stuff? Is it something like long ago we had a turbo button?

Looks like I need a whole new computer almost, case, mobo, cpu, and mem. Also I'll have to settle with the onboard video and sound. My hard drive is about the only thing I can reuse. Oh yeah, I'll need a DVD drive too.