A Guide to LCDs

[originel]

What is your current CRT?

Does the fact that I'm using an adaptor mean that it's only displaying as good as VGA

Correct

Getting a DVI monitor would improve this right?

From a purely theoretical standpoint yes, however read below for some caveats

How would my setup right now compare to 6bit and 8bit?

Your current setup will be better than LCDs in some ways, worse in others.

CRT's have the unique advantage over all TFT LCDs in that they display a true black. When you switch from a CRT to a TFT LCD, you will be annoyed in games for a while because the blacks and dark shades will look really terrible. You get used to it, and if you spend some more time configuring your brightness and contrast correctly in the game settings, then it is bearable. However no TFT LCD will ever have the accurate black levels of your current CRT due to the bleed-through described above. When I first switched, it really bugged me for about a month...but now I don't notice it. Also note that I have an 8-bit panel with the better color fidelity than 6-bits...so it will be even worse if you get a 6-bit panel. Remember, CRT monitors ALWAYS have better color than a TFT LCD panel.

CRTs may not be as accurate colorwise though due to the VGA connection and the way that CRTs work. Note that LCDs using a VGA connector and/or are 6-bit panels are not any better, only 8-bit panels using a DVI connection. From what it sounds like, color accuracy isn't important to you anyways though.

Also, just because a panel is not 8-bit doesn't automatically make it bad for games. I cannot notice any ghosting on my 8-bit panel, which is the only advantage that a 6-bit panel has over an 8-bit panel (aside from price). However, this varies from person to person. Since your used to CRTs, what refresh rate do you start to notice flickering at? I would say that if you're fine using 72-75Hz refresh, then you wouldn't notice any ghosting on an 8-bit panel.

[-FMA]

Originally Posted by originel

What is your current CRT?
Correct
From a purely theoretical standpoint yes, however read below for some caveats

Your current setup will be better than LCDs in some ways, worse in others.

CRT's have the unique advantage over all TFT LCDs in that they display a true black. When you switch from a CRT to a TFT LCD, you will be annoyed in games for a while because the blacks and dark shades will look really terrible. You get used to it, and if you spend some more time configuring your brightness and contrast correctly in the game settings, then it is bearable. However no TFT LCD will ever have the accurate black levels of your current CRT due to the bleed-through described above. When I first switched, it really bugged me for about a month...but now I don't notice it. Also note that I have an 8-bit panel with the better color fidelity than 6-bits...so it will be even worse if you get a 6-bit panel. Remember, CRT monitors ALWAYS have better color than a TFT LCD panel.

Hmm alright. Thanks!

CRTs may not be as accurate colorwise though due to the VGA connection and the way that CRTs work. Note that LCDs using a VGA connector and/or are 6-bit panels are not any better, only 8-bit panels using a DVI connection. From what it sounds like, color accuracy isn't important to you anyways though.

Well, it is, but not so much, as I'm colorblind Color shading doesn't mean a whole lot to me, and if they're slightly off, I wouldn't even notice.

Also, just because a panel is not 8-bit doesn't automatically make it bad for games. I cannot notice any ghosting on my 8-bit panel, which is the only advantage that a 6-bit panel has over an 8-bit panel (aside from price). However, this varies from person to person. Since your used to CRTs, what refresh rate do you start to notice flickering at? I would say that if you're fine using 72-75Hz refresh, then you wouldn't notice any ghosting on an 8-bit panel.

Hmm. Alright. I don't really feel like spending a whole lot on a LCD, I just wanted something to be able to bring to LAN parties and not have to deal with my CRT. I also wanted to use it for graphic design, that's important too.

Knowing this, I might just get a cheap 6bit LCD and use it just for gaming. And use my CRT for graphic design.

I'd want a 19", and I'd probably pay $250. Would you suggest I do otherwise?

Thanks a lot,

-FMA

[originel]

There are basically two price points in LCDs right now: $200+/- for cheap 19" panels and $300+/- for good 19" panels. Note that you can get 6-bit or 8-bit color depth in both price points. After some searching it looks like 8-bit panels are roughly the same price as 6-bit panels for similar quality (similar quality meaning the quality of a specific 6-bit panel compared with other 6-bit panels falls at some point, and the point where each panel falls relative to other similar panels is the same, not the image quality. Confused?).

So really 6-bit v 8-bit is not about price, it's about preference.

Ultimately the things I recommend looking for are a DVI connection (this is critical IMO) and a name brand with good user ratings. Viewsonic is my favorite, but NEC, Samsung and Dell also make good quality panels with BenQ and LG making decent budget-priced panels.

[StealthyV]

I have the 19" Hyundai L90D+ (8bit) and I am very happy with it. NewEgg had a fantastic deal on this monitor about a year ago, pricing it around $265, when all other LCD monitors of same size were well above $350. I recommend this monitor to everyone who games and everyone who is looking for an extra-sharp display. It has an adjustable base, with weak speakers built-in...perfect for a backup if you have more than one computer plugged into your monitor (think, KVM switch).

review at TomsHardware

~Branson

*just re-read the review...it's actually a glowing review...if you take the time to click through the pages. Looking back at this review, I really don't think I read it before I purchased the monitor, but it's an investment I'm not sore for making.

[originel]

That monitor isn't made anymore...and looking at it's measurements it doesn't look that great. It's response time is uniformly worse than mine, and mine is an 8-bit panel. In fact, I would stay away from this monitor if you're a gamer...there are much better out there. You're probably just not sensitive to refresh rate. Even Tom's hardware didn't have a "glowing" review as you stated...there were several caveats, especially in video playback. Plus it's just a 6-bit LCD, not an 8-bit like you said.

[StealthyV]

actually if you look at the product specifications page, you'll see "16.7 million colors", which makes it clear it's an 8bit panel; a 6bit panel would only display 262 thousand colors.

I have the refresh rate set at 75 Hertz, as 60 Hertz is too flickery for me.

Regardless, there will always be a "superior" product available (except when a monopoly controls the marketplace) and that's just something you have to accept, especially when building your own computer. I'm very happy with the performance of this monitor and still would recommend it.

Also, as for its 'not being produced' anymore, I haven't found anything online confirming this...even their product website still lists it. The only 19" Hyundai Imagequest monitor I see discontinued is the N91S, which is not my model number. But, I'm not interested in straying off-topic.

It's important for every buyer to research the options, then make the best decision for their situation. This monitor has performed well since I bought it over a year ago, and therefore, I maintain zero reservations in recommending its use by others.

I appreciate the dialogue on this topic, and especially the detailed explanation above about the differences between the 6bit and 8bit panels, and how that affects the age-old "how quick is YOUR monitors' response time?"

The original reason I responded was to recommend the Hyundai L90D+ LCD panel and to offer a "review" for consideration, for those who might be interested. I consider Toms Hardware to be a good source of information, and their only gripe was the narrow viewing angle if you're watching DVD's with your friends. Most people have a seperate DVD player and television anyway, so I don't see this as a problem.

Thanks for putting together such a detailed (original) post.

~Branson

[originel]

actually if you look at the product specifications page, you'll see "16.7 million colors", which makes it clear it's an 8bit panel; a 6bit panel would only display 262 thousand colors.

Note exactly, a 6-bit panel shows as displaying 16.2 million colors due to how it does dithering (read my first post). However, it turns out that Tom's Hardware has a typo...they said 16.2 million, hence my 6-bit comment, but the Hyundai site said 16.7, so I assume the mistake is THG's.

Regardless, there will always be a "superior" product available (except when a monopoly controls the marketplace) and that's just something you have to accept, especially when building your own computer. I'm very happy with the performance of this monitor and still would recommend it.

That's certainly your opinion...but I simply cannot recommend it to gamers because there are "superior" products available for less money.

Also, as for its 'not being produced' anymore, I haven't found anything online confirming this...even their product website still lists it. The only 19" Hyundai Imagequest monitor I see discontinued is the N91S, which is not my model number. But, I'm not interested in straying off-topic.

Try and find it on newegg. I mean this literally too. I tried for about 10 minutes and I couldn't find it...possibly because of a hole in my search patterns. This monitor looks like it might be good for people with a low sensitivity to refresh rate or non-gamers.

This monitor has performed well since I bought it over a year ago, and therefore, I maintain zero reservations in recommending its use by others.

Keep in mind that any decent monitor will perform well over time, which means that it's not a good criteria for recommending a monitor. Just because something performs well doesn't mean something else won't perform better (for cheaper).

I consider Toms Hardware to be a good source of information, and their only gripe was the narrow viewing angle if you're watching DVD's with your friends.

Something to keep in mind about THG and why they aren't that great...they tend to be really relative in their declarations. They said the Hyundai was great because it was the best of the group...but they didn't do a comparison with a broad range of monitors in that article. What THG IS useful for is getting performance ratings...you should take their measurements and compare them with their measurements of other monitors. When you do this...the Hyundai looks much less enticing. As for their comments...the person reviewing probably had a high tolerance for refresh rate. This is something that can never be corrected for either, which is why going with the actual measurements is important. Check the measurements for your monitor and compare it with mine. Yes THG loved yours, but look at the difference in contrast stability and latency between ours. The only area where mine is worse is in spatial uniformity...which I have previously stated as the drawback. Suffice to say, this paints a very different picture compared with the opinions expressed in the THG article. And ultimately I think my monitor is the best in it's immediate price range (at the time), but it still has several flaws that keep it from being anything but perfect, so while it has performed well for me, that doesn't mean there can't be something better.

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This brings up a good point. Using the opinions of others is pretty useless. The best way to shop for anything is to completely ignore any commentary and just look at the numbers. It's a lot harder to fake numbers when measured properly, whereas opinions are just that, opinions. This even includes my opinions expressed about monitors...just look at the measurements for the true story.

[truckpuller]

So from what i read here that the response times are bogus that they give in the spec's for LCD's. This link is too a viewsonic advertising a 2ms response time on a 19" panel.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824116375

Iam in the market right now for a new LCD monitor and have been looking around right now im using a Mitsubishi Diamondpoint sb70 17" crt which has a antiglare antistatic coating which is coming off why i dont know and NEC doesnt know.
What about the HannsG monitors in your opinion like this one
http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?...Ne=5&An=browse

Hope link works
Bye the way great article Original

[carl33p]

Google some reviews on the model you are looking for.

But the HannsG are the cheapest LCDS on the net. Ive seen the 19" going for 150$ after-rebate.(Might have even seen it for 100$ a little while back) So dont expect all that much.

[originel]

The actual response time for the viewsonic is around 12-15ms for most transitions. It's a good gaming LCD, although the color isn't as good since it's a 6-bit.

That HannsG looks pretty crappy. According to the specs, it's very dim, and it's refresh is probably not that great either since the budget manufacturers tend to skew the specs more.