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  1. #1
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    Should I buy or Could I build better.

    Ok I posted a few weeks back About Either building a computer or Buying a Dell refurb and tossing a graphics card in. Graphics card for a computer im buying Now Ive finally got my money to be able to with a BUT I ended up having something come up for school so My budget went from 700-750ish. To now like $500-550. So now imma ask again cause my budget has changed would buying a dell refurb like this one without a graphics card for $449 then tossing in a $50-$75 basically whatever the power supply can handle graphics card be cheaper than building from scratch.
    • Processor: Intel Core i5-2320 processor(6MB Cache, 3.0GHz)
    • Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium
    • Inspiron 620 Minitower
    • 500 GB SATA II Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
    • 6 GB DDR3 NON-ECC SDRAM 1333MHz (2 DIMMs)
    • 16X DVD +/- RW Drive
    Or if not id appreciate it a lot if like the last post people could give me a rundown list with prices of what id need. I'm really not looking to play serious games just sc2/dota2/WoW all of which I already play on my laptop now just wanna play them smoother and without having to ultra low graphics and nothing running in background. Currently Im on a
    Core2 duo 2.6ghz laptop with 4GB with a I believe 256MB graphics card. but obviously its still nothing compared to even the worst desktops.



    One note Im not a fan of AMD Had a bad experience with a AMD graphics card or shall i say cards over a like 2 year span and just never liked them since.

    TY very much.
    Last edited by TheUsualSuspect; February 23rd, 2012 at 09:29 PM.

  2. #2
    Super Stealthy Moderator RicheemxX's Avatar
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    With a full Intel build, including Windows it might be hard to match that price/budget and still have the performance there. The one thing I'd say though is for gaming I wouldn't want to be limited to a card that could run on that 300w psu or a card at the $50-75 budget. Personally I'd want to add another PSU and bump the card up more. Knowing budget is a concern you could add those later, so for me I'd honestly wait on adding anything until you could go all-in (so to speak)

    The other question I'd ask is does this come with all the peripherals you need? Monitor, mouse, keyboard ect. That is often something people overlook when they are working on tight budgets.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RicheemxX View Post
    With a full Intel build, including Windows it might be hard to match that price/budget and still have the performance there. The one thing I'd say though is for gaming I wouldn't want to be limited to a card that could run on that 300w psu or a card at the $50-75 budget. Personally I'd want to add another PSU and bump the card up more. Knowing budget is a concern you could add those later, so for me I'd honestly wait on adding anything until you could go all-in (so to speak)

    The other question I'd ask is does this come with all the peripherals you need? Monitor, mouse, keyboard ect. That is often something people overlook when they are working on tight budgets.
    yeah I already got a nice 17inch monitor sitting here that I only use to hook my xbox to currently from my old desktop. and got a keyboard and the mouse I use now although I need to get a new MX518 this one is getting lightyears old but holding up somehow lol. Yeah I was thinking about that too possible eventually upgrading a bit, I just basically need something now that can run without me wanting to punch my screen like my labtop does.

  4. #4
    Super Stealthy Moderator RicheemxX's Avatar
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    Be a Liberal, blame everyone else!!

  5. #5
    PC Upgrade Procrastinator ShyguyXPC's Avatar
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    Last edited by ShyguyXPC; February 24th, 2012 at 01:20 AM.
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  6. #6
    PC Upgrade Procrastinator ShyguyXPC's Avatar
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    Rich's list isn't bad either, but mine includes everything

    no but seriously, most of that parts list I posted above, was a sample budget build for a friend earlier today.

    except it had one of the new Radeon HD 7750's in it, that only consume 55W of power, and are as good if not sometimes a tad better than the 5770/6770 cards.

    since you mentioned you didn't care for AMD, I swapped in another card, a Refurbished Factory Overclocked GTX 550 Ti, which would actually beat the 7750 a tad, but uses twice as much power.
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  7. #7
    Super Stealthy Moderator RicheemxX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShyguyXPC View Post
    Rich's list isn't bad either, but mine includes everything
    You forgot the link to the GPU
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  8. #8
    PC Upgrade Procrastinator ShyguyXPC's Avatar
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    Huh... so I did, oh well, fixed it, still same total price.
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  9. #9
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    I do like some of both builds 1 question could I use the Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more! from rich's build in your build shyguy? It would cost me a bit more and put me a bit over 600 but If I could come up with the cash would it make much difference Ive heard good things about intel i5 is why I ask.

  10. #10
    PC Upgrade Procrastinator ShyguyXPC's Avatar
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    you mean this one?

    Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more!


    the one you linked is the PSU/HDD Combo, which would be cheaper than what I listed, which was the same items separate.

    but you could get the i5 Quad core, though the Pentium I listed would be plenty for your needs, but the i5 would be more "future proofing" for upgrades and games later.
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  11. #11
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    So after seing if I could spare some extra cash and getting someone to offer to buy me the GPU for my 23rd birthday in 2 weeks. gogo grandparents still spoiling me . It allowed me to build a list off of the best of both of yours so tell me if you see anything that wont work with this list.

    System Newegg.com - Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - Operating Systems
    Memory Newegg.com - Team Elite 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Desktop Memory Model TED34096M1066HC7DC
    CPU. Intel Core i5-2400 3.1GHZ Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more!
    Case Newegg.com - HEC Blitz Black Steel Edition ATX Mid Tower Computer Chassis Gaming Case w/ Front Blue LED 120mm Fan & Top 120mm Fan
    GPU Newegg.com - Refurbished: EVGA SuperClocked 01G-P3-1557-RX GeForce GTX 550 Ti (Fermi) 1GB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
    Motherboard Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-H61MA-D3V LGA 1155 Intel H61 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
    Hard drive/power supply Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more!

    total price with shipping $650.67

    2 things
    #1 even though I dont like AMD much is the Radeon HD 7750 you put into your friends system a better card than this one? you said it takes less power and such and I read that AMD has gotten alot better in past years from what it used to be back when I had my problems with them. so if you think its a better card id be willing to give AMD another chance you guys are the experts after all.
    #2 1 of your lists had 2x GB memory sticks the other had 1x 4GB memory stick which would be better or does it matter much outside of the 4GB being able to stick another 4gb stick in there if I needed or actually i think the Motherboard is 4 memory ports so wouldn't matter I guess.
    Last edited by TheUsualSuspect; February 25th, 2012 at 06:41 PM.

  12. #12
    Millwright stroyal's Avatar
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    The reviews say similar performance, with a lot less power.
    Read for your self
    AMD Radeon HD 7770 and 7750 Cape Verde GPU Review | PC Perspective
    Even beats the 550Ti in some cases. Cheaper and cooler, also.
    Though overall the 550Ti is probably best performance.

    Most experts won't agree with your assessment on AMD/ATI
    Never had a problem with either ATI or Nvidia. Well except for Linux.
    When I started, ATI was the larges video chip maker, in the world only behind Intel.

    We pick on price and performance, to get the best bang for your buck.
    Not denying, they have had problems from time to time, but so has Nvidia.
    Try installing a Nvidia card in Linux, without pulling you hair out, in frustration.
    If there was a Major problem with either, we would hear about it.

    There should be no difference in performance, with 4 sticks, vs 2.
    I'd get 2-2 gig.
    If nothing else, upgrading to 8gig will be cheaper, with 2 open slots.



    Edit

    My ATI 9700pro, with 1 capacitor missing off the board, runs 2-19" monitors every day, at my friends house, and that is 10 years old.

    I also have many older Nvidia and ATI cards that still run.
    Last edited by stroyal; February 25th, 2012 at 10:33 PM.
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  13. #13
    PC Upgrade Procrastinator ShyguyXPC's Avatar
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    same results here with ATI/AMD.

    Only last five years I have been Intel with my Builds, since the release of the Core 2 Duo CPU's.

    Prior to that I have almost always been AMD CPU's since 1999 or so, my first 2 Builds in 1998 were an old Intel Pentium 120MHz, which was then upgraded/converted into a Cyrix MII Series CPU.

    but same with ATI Video cards, aside from some driver issues with some games, though Have had same with Nvidia on occasion, My old ATI Rage Fury 128 series still works in my old AMD K6/2 500MHz system. And my ATI Radeon 9700 Pro (Gigabyte brand card), with an Arctic Cooling VGA Silencer Revision 2 Cooler on it, still works.

    Also still have my Radeon HD 2600 Pro 512MB card, still works, and my Radeon 4870 1GB, also works fine. Only issues I have with the 4870, is the fan on it is too loud.

    It is a known fact that Nvidia Updates their drivers more often in a years time than ATI/AMD does, in general, so updates and fixes for games come less often on Radeons, but then again some years its head to head. though sometimes Nvidia fixes things in a whole slew of games, where as AMD/ATI is maybe less games, they both trade punches in this area, though Nvidia tends to pull ahead by just a little.


    as to the 7750, Stroyal got it in one.


    its a pretty sweet card, since it only pulls as much power, and even less than the prior 6670/6570 cards, but easily out performs the onlder 6750, matches the 6770, and in some cases matches the slightly faster GTX 550 Ti.

    The 7770 beats all of those, uses still less power than any of those cards, and even matches the prior gen 6850's, creeping up into GTX 560 and Radeon 6870 territory, all with less than 100W of power (80W range).

    If the Grandparents are paying for the card, see if they'd be willing to maybe go for something like this: Newegg.com - EVGA SuperClocked 01G-P3-1363-KR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

    then upgrade the PSU to something a tad bit better, like an Antec 520W or Corsair 500W.



    Newegg.com - Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W Continuous Power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply

    Newegg.com - HEC Blitz Black Steel Edition ATX Mid Tower Computer Chassis Gaming Case w/ Front Blue LED 120mm Fan & Top 120mm Fan

    Newegg.com - Seagate Barracuda ST500DM002 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

    Newegg.com - Mushkin Enhanced Essentials 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 996586

    Newegg.com - ASRock Z68M/USB3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

    Newegg.com - Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - Operating Systems

    Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more!

    I left out the GPU since you mentioned the Grandparents willing to buy it.

    But for the price that GTX 460 is the best deal out there right now.

    With that out of the way, leaves some money to play with for other parts, main one being the PSU, that Antec 520W has enough power to run almost any video card today, up to the higher end ones, can easily run something like a Radeon 6970 or GTX 570, or even, Radeon 7950 if you needed, Could probably run a GTX 580 or Radeon 7970 in a pinch as well.

    as long as you aren't running a lot of hard drives or high wattage case fans, or water cooling kits, etc.

    I opted for the Mushkin RAM listed above, the Team Elite stuff Rich listed is good, have used their DDR2 RAM before, but the kit listed runs at standard DDR3 1066MHz, but runs at 1.65v, DDR3 standard spec voltage is 1.5v, the Mushkin kit above is DDR3 1333MHz, and runs at 1.5v, Team Elite had a kit with that specs as well, for Same as the one Rich listed, but the Mushkin has a LOT more reviews, and more popular.



    Opted for the Asrock Z68 Chipset motherboard, its $15 more than the Gigabyte one, and the Z68 is the better chipset, it actually has some Overclocking Options if you ever wanted to get into that, where as Intel H61 and H67 Chipsets have absolutely NO options for that.

    The Z68's also have a capability to use a Solid State Drive to be used as a Cache drive (Intel Smart Response Technology) up to 40GB in size, to be used to speed up regular hard drive performance significantly.

    The board also uses a special chip (Lucid Virtu Switchable Graphics), to be able to switch from the On CPU Graphics to a dedicated Graphics card, for power/performance enhancements, for example, HD video playback, basic uses it can use the Intel on CPU Graphics, and for gaming and high demand 3D, it can use the video card. With out having to manually switch it yourself.

    For any Overclocking stuff, you'll want some DDR3 1600Mhz RAM though (1.5v preferred).




    as to why I listed a single stick of RAM before, was because the Motherboard only had 2 Slots, it left open a 2nd slot for more later.

    running Single channel vs Dual channel these days you don't lose much in performance, especially given the speed of RAM these days, and larger capacities tend to outweigh the need for Dual Channel.


    But with the Graphics card, if the Grand Parents can't see spending $140 on the GTX 460 1GB linked above, then that refurbished GTX 550 Ti would be the best deal, its Factory Overclocked beyond stock Clocks, and would out perform by a bit any Stock Clocked Radeon HD 7750, plus costs about same or less. And the Power Supply would have no problem running it.

    Grand Total: $601.73 Minus the Graphics card.



    Actually Scratch that GTX 460 linked above...

    If this one is still in stock, get this one instead: Newegg.com - Refurbished: EVGA 01G-P3-1371-RX GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

    The one above is an odd ball GTX 460 1GB that EVGA is making, its Factory Overclocked Way beyond stock clock speeds, but only has a 192-bit memory bus, normally the GTX 460 1GB has a 256-bit bus, this one above, has the 256-bit bus, and is still OC'd beyond stock speeds (Stock core speed for 460 is 675MHz, this one is 720MHz)

    the greater 256-bit bus will help with higher resolution Anti Aliasing effects in some games. 192-bit still isn't bad, still much better than 128-bit like the GTX 550 Ti, but for the price, that 256-bit 460 is the better deal.

    Either card would be fine, for the price, the latter is 90 Day Warranty from EVGA since its Recertified, and the former is brand new and 3 year warranty.

    the GTX 550 Ti, is also recertified with only 90 day warranty.

    if G-ma and G-pa can't afford the $140 cards, then the 550 Ti listed above (981MHz Core) is still a good card to get, you could probably even overclock that one to over 1GHz, as many of those 550 Ti's, even the stock 900MHz core models, can be pushed beyond 1GHz.
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  14. #14
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    I really appreciate all the help and all the cool shit you showed me I could do with it, but I gotta draw the line on price somewhere . them getting me the card was basically so I don't have to empty my bank account buying this rather than a excuse to toss a extra $100 in .
    although about graphics card I was gonna ask 1 thing. With the setup I Had proposed "I am gonna swap the memory by the way thx for the little bit of info on that". But anyways with the setup I had proposed would the PSU I had listed be fine to run a Radion HD 6850 Newegg.com - SAPPHIRE 100315L Radeon HD 6850 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity $120 after rebate+coupon instead of GXT 550ti or Radion HD 7750. I saw when looking up things on the 7750 they always seem to do a benchmark with the 6850 as part of the comparison and it seems pretty amazing. Or would it be better to just stick with either the GXT 550ti or 7750.

    also if there anything else that with it being Monday tommorow that maybe you see go on sale that would help me upgrade without increasing price id appreciate it. Im planning to start ordering stuff monday assuming everything looks good.

  15. #15
    PC Upgrade Procrastinator ShyguyXPC's Avatar
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    If your willing to go with a 6850, then go with the GTX 460's I listed, the rebate is after you buy the card full price, mail it in, and would be weeks or months before you would see that rebate back.

    MIR's are really worthless IMO, I tried them out a few times, and it takes forever to get them back, by the time they do come back, you could easily earn the little bit extra working a job.

    The 7750 can be compared to the 6850, but its the 7770 that takes its performance, which is about the same price as a 6850 right now.

    If the price range of the 550 ti or 7750 is all that can be afforded, then go with those, that is the price you pay at check out.

    no, no idea what might be on sale tomorrow, Newegg has a habit with me, of putting stuff on sale that I want AFTER I've ordered it, or am out of money, same with their coupons/promo codes, sends me them in my email, after I've bought certain items I could of used them on.
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  16. #16
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    Ok up to $125ish seems to be how much my grandma will kick in. and after thinking about it id rather have the 2 year warrenty of a new GPU over the 90 day of a refurbish, just in case something does go wrong with it. So if the choice was between that oddball GTX 460, or just getting a HD 7770 id toss in the extra 35 it sounds pretty solid running quiet, good temp, good performance. which would you go with on sole this is a better card basis ignoring price.
    Last edited by TheUsualSuspect; February 26th, 2012 at 09:08 PM.

  17. #17
    PC Upgrade Procrastinator ShyguyXPC's Avatar
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    as much as I like the 7770 due to its performance vs power consumption, and the price is comparable with the 6850 that it more or less replaces based on performance, the GTX 460 still gets the nod, as far as my choice would go.

    Performance would be a bit better IMO, closer to a 6870's performance.

    Add to that, the new Radeon HD 7000 series drivers are still new and not really optimized, so there should be less issues with games on the 460 out of the box so to speak than the Radeon.

    But I do love the new 7750/7770's performance vs power consumption, I just wish the 7770 was a bit lower in price.
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    Last edited by TheUsualSuspect; March 6th, 2012 at 09:06 PM.

  19. #19
    PC Upgrade Procrastinator ShyguyXPC's Avatar
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    of course newegg's down for some reason right now, happened while I was viewing links, so when ever they get back up, can take a look I guess.

    one thing I see is the PSU, need to change that perhaps.

    most of Rosewill's units are not that great, their Neweggs name brand, like Ultra is for Tigerdirect.
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  20. #20
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    ah didnt know that and hoping onto newegg I see cosair has a code for 15% any of there PSU's that I didnt see before so probily can get the same power cosair for same price.

    seems the site is up intermittently atm.

    edit in between the site crashing on me I see that the corsair that I was going to use before 600W builder series has a bundle again with my Hard drive that disappeared at the start of the month but magically reappeared and now has $10.50 more on cause the 15% coupon is compatable with the combo. so its like $39 dollars for the PSU when you figure I would have paid full price for the drive anyways.
    Last edited by TheUsualSuspect; March 6th, 2012 at 10:22 PM.

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