Time to upgrade Dell XPS 720 for BF3, what card?

[TrevS]

Hi all

I've had my Dell XPS 720 with a Nvidia 8800GTX for a good few years now and it recently decided to die playing BF3. I think it was a little too much for the old card.

So I need a new card and really it's just for BF3 as that's the only PC game I play a lot of. I've read on a few places that BF3 needs quite a lot of VRAM and also I want to future proof the system as I will be upgrading my monitor to either a 24" running 1920x1200 or 27" running 2560x1440.

I don't want to spend a fortune on a new card and have budgeted around £200-250 ($315-400). The card I been looking at mostly is the Asus GTX560ti 900mhz TOP II 2gb card as it's got plenty of VRAM.

This will work with my system fine currently but not sure if it would be underpowered for running higher resolutions in future. The other card I looked at was a Gainward GTX 580 Good edition 1536mb which has less RAM but is a newer series card so I thought it might be a faster card.

Could someone recommend either one of these or suggest some better alternatives in my price range? Any help would be much appreciated

Trev

[SoloCamo]

Welcome to TechIMO!

I wouldn't go with a 560ti for future proofing, especially at a resolution such as 2560 especially. This said, if you are willing to spend 400 bucks, there is no better deal currently than the GTX670 - though it may be out of stock in some retaillers, with enough hunting you can get it.

It usually sells at $399 and is MUCH faster than both a 560ti and 580. It's only slightly slower than a gtx680 which is currently top dog, especially for games such as BF3.

It's the best deal for the money in the 350+ range at the moment.

Personally I opted for a GTX480 for 200 bucks w/ 1.5vram and it handles BF3 on all high (not ultra mind you) for 64 player multiplayer just fine and always over 30fps at 1920x1080.

A 670 will have zero problem running it on ultra.

[TrevS]

Thanks for the quick response. I did look at a couple of 670's on overclockers.co.uk. They seem to have 4 or 5 cards at the £300 price.
Components » Graphics Cards - NVIDIA » NVIDIA GTX 670 Series - Overclockers UK

Which would be your preference?

Trev

[SoloCamo]

From the link you posted, and from your situation definitely go with a 4gb card, preferablly the EVGA GeForce GTX 670 w/Backplate 4096MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card (02G-P4-2671-KR) [02G-P4-2671-KR]

Yes, it's a bit more in cost, but if you are looking for a bit more future use out of it, this is the best for it. Especially considering the higher resolutions you want to run. Also, more and more games will start to use more vram, so it's best to grab as miuch as you can.

It's one of the reasons I went with an older gtx480 over a newer 570 (1536mb vs 1280mb) - besides of course the huge price difference.

Point being is, the more AA, higher textures and more importantly higher res you use, you will get much smoother gameplay when you don't run out of vram, regardless of frame rate. It's nice to not stutter as new textures load in.

Now if that 4gb model is out of the price range, well its very understandable as its far from cheap, so if that is the case, any of those 2gb models would fair well, though I personally prefer the evga models simply due to their customer service and warranties.

[TrevS]

hmm I think that's a little too pricey for the 4gb models. Like I say I only really play BF3 on my PC so don't want to go too crazy.

[SoloCamo]

hmm I think that's a little too pricey for the 4gb models. Like I say I only really play BF3 on my PC so don't want to go too crazy.

Yea, than a 2gb model will suite you just fine. and even at 2560 strictly for bf3, you won't notice a difference, atleast for BF3.

It was more or less suggested for down the road, as 1.5-2gb seems to be the minimum these days for ultra settings.

[ShyguyXPC]

what Power supply do you have to run this on? have to ask that question before moving on.

Also what CPU is in your system currently?

reason I ask is it could be too low end and potentially bottleneck the card. an 8800GTX is quite old, and Intel's Core 2 series on Socket 775 was out when that card was around.

[SoloCamo]

what Power supply do you have to run this on? have to ask that question before moving on.

Also what CPU is in your system currently?

reason I ask is it could be too low end and potentially bottleneck the card. an 8800GTX is quite old, and Intel's Core 2 series on Socket 775 was out when that card was around.

Very good point I overlooked when I hopped on the 670 hype train. I'd image even the top Q series quad would still greatly bottleneck it. Perhaps a 560ti or so would be best and that put the rest towards a new system when needed.

[ShyguyXPC]

or if they can wait a bit longer hope that Nvidia gets off their butts and releases the 650/660 series in the next few weeks, that might be an option as well, but depends on the CPU they have in there right now.

It looks like some reviews online show the XPS 720 coming with a Q6600 quad, which I do think would choke a GTX 670. if it were Overclocked, or capable of doing so, to 3GHz or more I think it would be ok, but its hard to say. I have seen people running a Q6600 Overclocked with a GTX 580 and seems to be fine for them, but no idea if its bottlenecked or not.

a 560 Ti might be fine on that, even a 570 might be ok, but if they went for that level of performance right now, a Radeon HD 7850 would be the sweet spot, costing less, and netting same or better performance and less power consumption as well.

Though once the Geforce 650/660's come out, I'm sure AMD will drop the price of the 7850 even further, unless they come out with a stop gap, gimped 7850 model to fill in the space between the 7770 and 7850 models.

[TrevS]

Hi guys

Right my PC spec is as follows:

Dell XPS 720
Intel Core2 Quad CPU @ 2.66GHz
5.5gb Ram
Windows 64bit ultimate

It's an old work machine that I recently did a clean install on. I had it running BF3 on high settings for about 2 months fine with the 8800GTX. It was a little laggy but it ran. That was on my 19" monitor running 1280x1024 though.

Trev

[ShyguyXPC]

a GTX 570 should run fine on that, or Radeon HD 7850, either one is near same performance level, the latter runs cooler and less power, but also usually costs less.


Whats the Power Supply info? Brand, Model, wattage, +12V Amp rating (could be 1 or more +12V rails)

[TrevS]

a GTX 570 should run fine on that, or Radeon HD 7850, either one is near same performance level, the latter runs cooler and less power, but also usually costs less.


Whats the Power Supply info? Brand, Model, wattage, +12V Amp rating (could be 1 or more +12V rails)

Someone on another forum also suggested a 7850. They recommended the MSI HD 7850 Twin Frozr III OC 2048mb card. It's about £30-40 more than the Asus 560ti TOP II 2048mb card. Both have the same RAM and same clock speed, can you tell me which is the better card and why?

Also the other forum I joined were concerned about bottlenecking on the system due to the CPU.

Thanks

Trev

[ShyguyXPC]

just out of curiousity which forum was it?


But they were right in their comments as well.

as to which is better, as I stated above the 7850 would be similar to a GTX 570, and since the latter is the next card in the series above the 560 Ti, that pretty much sums up which card is better.

Video RAM and clock speeds, just because they match doesn't mean a thing. Your comparing two completely different cards using two different GPU Architectures.

Its like comparing a 3GHz AMD Quad core to a 3GHz Intel Quad Core... their both 3GHz and both Quad cores, but the Intel is going to waste the AMD any day.


BF3 and Radeon 7800 series Benchmarks: AMD Radeon HD 7850 and 7870 review

the GTX 570 beats it a bit, but the 7850 is cheaper, closer to $250 USD, some GTX 570's can be found near that as they're being liquidated in favor of the new 600 series, but while the 600 Series is in short supply, the 570 will still be in demand and not drop in price much. You'll see GTX 580's drop in price though, I have already seen several near the $350 USD mark.

In that bench link above, the GTX 560 Ti should be doing better than the GTX 470, but the 560 Ti has a 256-bit memory bus and the 470 has a 320-bit bus, which helps with high resolution texture data and bandwidths for games like BF3, otherwise that 560 Ti should be higher in performance than the 470.

but the Radeon 7850 also lags in Memory Bus Bit rate which helps with AA and high res textures in some games, since the 7850 has a 256-bit memory bus, otherwise it and the 7870 should also be much higher than where they are in this bench as well.

Same reasons why the 7850 lags behind the 570, the 570 has a 320bit memory bus.

Video Card Comparison - GPUReview.com

The GTX 580's bus is 384-bit vs the Radeon 7870's 256-bit bus, which keeps it ahead in these benchmarks: Video Card Comparison - GPUReview.com

the Radeon 7950 has a 384 bit memory bus which helps match the GTX 580's.

Video Card Comparison - GPUReview.com

not exactly sure why the 7870 matches the 7950 in this review:
Video Card Comparison - GPUReview.com

but looking at those specs it should be much faster, though this could be a driver related bug as well, since these Radeon HD 7000 series cards were still new at the time.




What about the Power Supply Info?

[TrevS]

The power supply is a 1000w dell unit that came with the PC. Also the other forum I joined was overclockers.co.uk as again it's a fairly active community.

At the moment I am between the 7850 2gb OC or the GTX560ti 2gb TOP. The 7850 seems a better card on many benchmarks I've seen but it always seems to be compared with the 1gb GTX 560ti not the 2gb so they aren't accurate comparisons. I did notice that BF3 performed better on the 560ti 1gb than the 7850 2gb which surprised me. If this is an accurate benchmark then wouldn't the 2gb 560ti be a better card?

The GTX is also £40 ($60) cheaper on UK websites but I don't mind spending a little more for better performance if that is the case.

Also I might be tempted by going for a higher end card like the 670 but I wouldn't want to spend the extra money if I am going to get bottlenecking with the CPU.

Trev

[ShyguyXPC]

ah, I'm familiar with that forum, not a member, but I know of them, use their site for recommendations to buy parts on a regular basis for UK members.


I'm not sure why its always compared to the Asus GTX 560 Ti TOP card, the Asus is a Factory Overclocked 560 Ti, and honestly isn't that high of a clock, so it shouldn't even be able to compare.

If it were one of the GTX 560 Ti 448 core cards (which are just gimped GTX 570's) it might fair better against the 7850, but from what I can find the TOP model your mentioning is a standard 384 core Card.

the 670 would be a good card, and would provide a massive boost no matter what, but I think there would be a Bottleneck, though if you planned on upgrading the CPU or core part of the system (Mobo/CPU) down the road in the next year or so, it would unleash the remaining bottleneck on the card, maybe making it last a bit longer than would be otherwise.



Do you have a link to the benchmarks or review showing the Asus card is better? Even if the 560 Ti has 2GB, the 7850 should still be better in performance.


As to the PSU, I know Dell used good quality PSU's for their really high end units like that 1000W you have, so you should be good to go, and ok running a card like a GTX 670 or other high end cards with too much trouble, even a couple cards.

Basically these high end Dell's were Dell branded Alienware units, or vice versa, since Dell owns Alienware, much of the hardware was the same in either brand.

[TrevS]

Benchmarks for 560ti vs 7850 on BF3
Sapphire Radeon HD 7850 OverClock Edition Graphics Card Review - Battlefield 3

Another BF3 benchmark here. What's interesting with this one is that the 560ti is only a 1gb card yet even at higher resolutions it seems to almost match the 7850 2gb.
AMD Radeon HD 7850 & HD 7870 2 GB Review | techPowerUp

Would really like to find a comparison with the 2gb 560ti TOP and and 7850 OC 2gb

[ShyguyXPC]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the deal is there, the review dates are around when the 7800's debuted so it could be immature drivers for those cards causing those results.

In general the 7850 is closer to the GTX 570.

It could just be BF3 is more Nvidia biased as well, over Radeon cards.


You could opt for a Radeon 7870 card as well, its in your budget range.


But as to the Asus 560 Ti, ANY GTX 560 Ti with 2GB of Memory would be all you need to get an idea of the performance. Any card from companies like EVGA, MSI, Gigabyte, or other brands with 2GB should be enough to judge, there's nothing special about the Asus card, the Factory Overclock is nothing special either, all the other brands have cards clocked that high as well.

heck my EVGA GTX 560 Ti is clocked at 850MHz out of the box, up from stock 822MHz, and EVGA sells a version with 900 and even 950MHz cores, so does MSI.

Also keep in mind many of these review sites use ridiculously spec'd and Overclocked Test Systems for all their Benchmarks, which artificially boost all results for all cards tested on it.

The TechPowerUp review is more respectable since it uses a Base Core i7 920 with an average Overclock on it.


If nvidia would get off their @ss and release the 650 and 660 series cards, it would be less of an issue to suggest which to buy, but they were rumored to be released in June, possible last week of May.

Personally its pissing me off, as I'm still debating whether to nab a 2nd GTX 560 Ti for SLI, or just grab a single 660 for now, and get a 2nd later in the year. The longer I wait for this damned release, the less good deals I get on a 2nd 560 Ti, at least thats the way it seems lately.

[TrevS]

The card that leaps out at me from that second benchmark is the GTX580. It seems to have very strong performance and I've seen one on overclockers for £239. That's about £25 ($35) more than the 7850.

Any thoughts on this card? My only concern is the lack of memory at 1.5gb but the benchmarks seem to suggest it runs fine at higher resolutions
Gainward GeForce GTX 580 "GOOD Edition" 1536MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card - OEM **90 Day Warranty** [4260183361749]

Trev

[ShyguyXPC]

1.5GB of memory is still more than enough.

Prior to the Release of the radeon 7970 and Geforce GTX 680/670 cards, the 580 was the best card out there, barring the Dual GPU Radeon 6990 and Geforce GTX 590 cards.

If you can afford it, it would be a good choice, but honestly, if your going for that much performance, you might as well swing the extra cash and get the GTX 670 instead.

you can see here how much faster it runs BF3: AnandTech - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 Review Feat. EVGA: Bringing GK104 Down To $400



Apparently BF3 is one of those games that tend to favor Nvdia cards as well, which would explain why the 7850 only does as well as the GTX 560 Ti in many reviews. Could be driver related, but it also comes down to what the game is bias for.

another review with very similar results:

Benchmark Results: Battlefield 3 (DX 11) : GeForce GTX 670 2 GB Review: Is It Already Time To Forget GTX 680?


keep in mind there will be a definite CPU bottleneck with these results.

but seeing where the 670 falls in these benchmarks, if you can nab a radeon 7900 series for less, it would be a good choice, since these cards tend to do as well if not better than the GTX 580 and almost as well as the 670.

[ShyguyXPC]

looks like price wise, the 580 is the best you can get, the 7950's tend to be a bit beyond your budget, so with that said, a 580 would be a good choice IMO.