Zotac Nvidia 8800GT

[thekau]

Hello, I recently got a Zotac Nvidia 8800GT to hopefully improve my gaming experience (aka > Assassin's Creed, haha).

Anyway, I'm having trouble getting the card to work correctly, and I know it's either my shoddy job at installing it, or some part of my computer.

So far I've plugged everything in in hopefully the correct places (I'm a little questionable about whether I connected the DC power cable to the card correctly or not ). But I may be wrong because obviously it's still not working. And yes, I have downloaded the latest driver for the card.

Sometimes when I turn my computer on, it will work perfectly fine until I start up Assassin's Creed. The screen changes, where the colors will be off and everything will freeze. Also, the screen goes a little whacky and this pattern of white will appear all over. And then I'm forced to manually restart the computer. Other times that happens even before I start up the game.

Specs:

OS: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E7400 @ 2.80GHz 1.73GHz

I looked around a bit to try and figure out what I did wrong, and one thing that I'm slightly worried about is my PCU. It's a OCZ StealthXStream OCZ400SXS 400W ATX12V Active PFC Power Supply (Newegg.com - OCZ StealthXStream OCZ400SXS 400W ATX12V Active PFC Power Supply). I've heard that a 400W doesn't cut it for a 8800GT, but at the same time, I've heard from some sites that it does. But I also read that it's not so much the watts that matter, but the amps... so now I'm confused and wondering what is actually correct (I'd like to know before I completely jump the gun and buy a new power supply).

I also thought at that it might be my motherboard, which is a Gigabyte EP45-UD3R (Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3R LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard). But I researched this before buying the card and it SHOULD work with it...

Another thing I've considered:

Incompatibility with my monitor (Asus VW224U [http://usa.asus.com/Display/LCD_Monitors/VW224U/]). (Refresh rate?) I saw from somewhere that having the VGA plug AND the DVI plug connected to the monitor helps... so I tried that but it didn't really do anything to improve the situation.

Edit: I've read into the differences between VGA and DVI a little, and could using DVI over VGA possibly be a factor in all of this?

Right now I'm really frustrated and I have no idea what to do.

Please help!

[Whir]

Sounds to me like it's overheating. Does the fan on the card spin?

[ShyguyXPC]

400W OCZ is more than enough for your system with the card.

its correct it has to do with the Amps. It also has to do with wattage.

In order to get a given wattage its Amp x Volts.

for example, 30A x 12V = 360W on the +12V Rail.

the Combined +12V Rail total for your PSU (it has Dual 12V Rails) is 372W, so it has 31A on the +12V rail.

Thats more than enough for your CPU, Video card and rest of the system.




Reason why it might need more than 400W, is many of the cheaper crap PSU's out there, don't have strong +12V Rails which is needed for the Video card (Video cards, only use the +12V Rail out of the 3 Voltage rails in a PSU). Most modern systems for the past half decade or so, use the 12V Rail primarily and only tap into the 2 other lesser rails as needed.

its important to have a Strong +12V Rail or combined total for a PSU of any given wattage rating these days. As well as a quality brand with quality build and internal components, as well as over power protection circuitry.

many of the cheaper crap units lack this. OCZ is a good brand, maybe not the top brand, but its a good brand.


Thing is, the OCZ model you have now, may still be good, but its old, its no longer made and hasn't been for years.

Over time, even good PSU's degrade with use.

if this was "new" to you then you might be fine with it, but if you've been using the PSU for years now, it might be slowly degrading in efficiency. How ever should still be more than capable of running your system and the card as well.


Your motherboard shouldn't be an issue, its PCIE 2.0, and so is the video card.

Your monitor shouldn't be an issue either, the card can output to just about any monitor out there regardless of refresh rate and resolutions, much of that is driver related compatibility, not the card.

Plugging in 2 different monitor connections would solve nothing, not sure where you read that, or what idiot posted that, but sounds like idiocy to me. Most monitors don't have selectable input functionality and will just pick up on the first signal it receives, in this case, depending on which signal it locks onto first, VGA or DVI, it will display from that port and not the other. Basically its an idiotic thing to do, and though won't cause damage, won't solve anything either.

There's no issue in using DVI or VGA, DVI is a Digital Signal, VGA is Analog, has nothing to do with compatibility. If the monitor has inputs for either, its compatible with either.

Otherwise why would the video card and monitor have the connection ports for the "incompatible" port?




I'm with Whir on the suggestion, sounds like the card is overheating.


Is this Zotac a Single Slot cooler design, or the Dual Slot Cooler design?

(Some single slot width cooler design 8800GT's had a habit of overheating more than Dual slot cards)

Are you using the Latest Nvidia Drivers for the card?

What did you have before you installed the 8800GT? Did you completely remove the old Video drivers before adding in the new card and installing drivers for it?

[thekau]

Hm, well the thing is, my old PSU overheated and caused my computer to shut down about a month ago, so I had a family member come and have a look at it. He helped replace my old PSU with the one I have now, so I can't be sure if it's completely "new" or not. Although, I'm sure it's at least relatively new, as I can't imagine my cousin giving me an old or faulty one.

I bought the card off a seller from ebay. But it was manufacturer refurbished, so it should be working well: ZOTAC ZT-88TES3P-FSP GeForce 8800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 | eBay.

And yes I did download the latest drivers

The card has a single cooler design (this means there is only one fan, correct?).

I'm a little curious though, about this whole overheating issue. My computer starts acting up pretty quickly when I turn the game on... maybe 10-15 seconds after initial start up. Is it possible for a card to overheat that quickly?

At times my computer will be completely fine. Like now, for instance. I've been using it for about an hour or two, and it's still okay. But I'm guessing it's because I haven't tried to play AC yet.

I had a Nvidia 9400GT before buying this new one. I'm pretty sure I did delete all the old video drivers. But I can't be completely sure because I did it AFTER I put the new one in (probably a stupid move, but I completely forgot until after I finished).

My card is at 67 degrees C (153 degrees F) when it's idling, which worries me a bit, as I've read that it should be lower when I'm not playing games.

Edit: I've checked the fan and it IS spinning when the computer is on.

Oh and when I was installing the 8800GT, I saw that it came with the 6 pin aux connector adapter. But I opted not to use it and instead plugged the card in with one that came from the PSU, one that was labeled, "PCI-E." I'm wondering if maybe that was the wrong one to plug the card in with? It was a 6+2 pin connector.

[ShyguyXPC]

it takes seconds for a card to go from running cool to running blazing hot, it depends on the game.

I play one, that it only takes less than 10 second to go from 30C idle to 60 or 70C just at the games menu screen, and stays about at that while playing the game, my older card, would hit 80 or 90C, but that was because it was a hotter running card.


I haven't really ever owned any mid to upper range Video cards in probably 5 years or more with single slot coolers, other than the 9800GT I bought from Whir a couple months back. I still haven't plugged that in to use it though. But all of my cards in this range have all been dual slot or at least 1 & 1/2 slot design cards.

All of them with single fans as well, but the thicker Heatsink offers more surface area for cooling.

I have a few low end budget single slot cards, but these are all really low powered cool running cards as well.

I know some single slot 8800GT's had cooling issues due to the way they didn't vent heat out of the case, and the single slot design coolers with less surface area. I know XFX had some problems with some of their cards back then, along with a few other brands, but if the card was cooled well enough with good case cooling, and ventilation, it was usually fine.

the card you bought, was it from an actual store on Ebay, or an actual person? Was it refurbished from the store, or refurbished bought from a person?

How much did you pay for the 8800GT?

67C at idle is pretty high, even with an 8800GT, unless your room the PC is in, is already sweltering hot.

Hell, my GTX 470 didn't even idle at that, it was low 60's in a room with no Air Conditioning.

GTX 470 easily hits 90C in some games at full load.

if your 8800GT is idling that high, it could very well be overheating when running AC.

No you plugged in the right connector on the card, from the PSU, the adapter is for people who don't have a PCIE plug on their PSU to connect to the card.

6+2 connectors are for cards that need an 8 Pin connector along with a 6 Pin, like some really high end Radeon and Geforce cards, it allows the PSU company to cater to either connection type with out having to provide Both connectors and have one more cable coming out of the PSU.

Most high end PSU's as well these days come with 6+2 Pin connectors for all their PCIe connectors.


Yes, you should of uninstalled the old Nvidia drivers before removing the old card, and then once the new one was installed boot windows, let it install its default VGA drivers, then reboot and load windows, and install the latest Nvidia drivers (Preferable to download from Nvidia and save on desktop somewhere or on Drive C to retrieve at this point).

You could also try and Install a program like EVGA precision or MSI Afterburner, and enable automatic fan speed control on the 8800GT to enable increase and decrease of fan speeds while running to help with cooling.

I've been using Precision for years now, and its helped tremendously over the years with cooling, helping prevent overheating during games, and better manage fan speeds when not gaming to reduce noise levels.



If your interested in Uninstalling all driver bits, and reinstalling with the latest, you can use a driver cleaner program like these:

Phyxion.net - Driver Sweeper

CCleaner - PC Optimization and Cleaning - Free Download

and remove all bits of drivers with the card currently installed.



Latest Nvidia drivers: Drivers - GeForce

and these are the links to EVGA Precision and MSI Afterburner (either one will be fine)

EVGA | Software | EVGA Precision

Thats the latest version (older ones will be fine as well), but you can make an account with them if you want, you don't need an EVGA card to have one.

older version from a year ago: eVGA Precision 2.0.3 download from Guru3D.com

from earlier this year: EVGA Precision v2.1.2 download from Guru3D.com

thats the same one I run currently.



MSI Afterburner unlike Precision also supports AMD Radeon cards: MSI Afterburner



Can you take a pic or two of the inside of your case and what it looks like, it could be a ton of ambient heat build up in the case and improper airflow that could be causing the high idle temps as well.


Couldn't hurt to find the Idle and load temps of your CPU as well.

CPU-z, H/W Monitor or PC Wizard should be able to get that info on the CPU temps just fine.


CPUID - System & hardware benchmark, monitoring, reporting

[thekau]

I bought it from SabrePC, which is an actual online company. From the reviews, and their online ebay store, which shows that they sell a lot of graphic cards, it looks pretty legitimate and reliable. I'm assuming the card was refurbished by their company.

I paid about $50 for it.

So far I've just about done everything you've mentioned: I've downloaded the Drive Sweeper and deleted all video card drivers (and redownloaded the latest ones), I've gotten the EVGA Precision and upped the speed of my fan, and I've also tested my CPU temps via the CPU-z.



I don't really know if that's what you were looking for, so I'm also attaching the .txt file that came with the CPU-z test.

Here are photos of the inside of my computer:

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/...d/P1010719.jpg
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/...d/P1010722.jpg
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/...d/P1010730.jpg
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/...d/P1010741.jpg

Also, what would you say is recommended in terms of range for how fast I should make my card's fan spin? Currently I have it at 72, which leaves it around 56C.

And is there anything else I could possibly do to cool my card down?

[ShyguyXPC]

for fan speed I just set it for Auto, unless its running really hot, and not dropping much after use, I crank it to 100% for a few minutes, to give it a swift kick in the @ss, and then set it back to auto, which for me is usually around 30-40% speed at most, sometimes it gets up to 60-70% max while gaming.

You can set the fans speed for temps on the one option in the app for a fan speed curve. As to what you want it set for, it depends on what your comfortable with for fan volume levels, but usually 70-80% is all that is needed, even during gaming, but depends from card to card, chip to chip, and cooling heatsink/fan used.

As to refurbished, Zotac, EVGA, Asus, and many others Refurbish the cards themselves, but sites like that sell them, Geeks.com is a site I see a lot of Zotac, Asus, and other brands sold as refurbished (EVGA calls it Recertified, but its same thing), Newegg also sells a lot of these Refurb cards as well.

I was just wondering if it was a refurb card that someone bought, beat the hell out of, and off loaded to someone on ebay, which isn't uncommon.

$50 isn't too bad for the card really. I don't remember how much Whir sold the 9800GT to me, but I think it was a tad cheaper (9800GT is the same card as the 8800GT, just rebadged), like $40 or so.

I know for $50 or so, you could get a newer Geforce GT 430 which would be similar in performance, run cooler, less power consumption (no PSU plug needed). Or a tad more and end up with a slightly faster GT 440 (same GPU, just faster clock speeds usually, and can be equipped with GDDR5 RAM instead of just GDDR3).



CPUz shows the CPU is sitting at about 30C, and System temp (usually Chipset) at 42C.

which isn't bad at all, I'm guessing this is at idle and not while gaming though.


Looking at Pics... DUST, DUST Everywhere, clean those CPU heatsinks and fans off of all that dust, its causing heat build up, Dust is a heat insulator and can reduce cooling efficiency significantly.

hairballs and dust needs to be blown out of that system, if you have to, use a tweezer or needle nose pliers to pluck hair balls and dust balls out of the heatsink and fan, but canned pressurized air should help with a lot of that. Do it outside, or at least have a vacuum or shop vac nearby to suck up the dust kicked up from cleaning.

if the rear case fan is screwed into the case, you can take that fan guard off it, its just in the way and collects dust.

you could also invest in a Rounded IDE Cable to replace the ribbon cable there.

otherwise cable management isn't too bad for a case like this, most of the times its a huge web of cables and stuff in the way.

You could remove one or two of the rear I/O brackets below the video card, which will help in air flow breath-ability, since these cards blow heat out back but with no where for the heat to go out the back.


Another option would be to transplant everything into a newer case, with better room and cooling.

Newegg.com - NZXT Source 210 S210-001 Black “Aluminum Brush / Plastic” ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

Newegg.com - Rosewill Blackbone Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case



But it'd be cheaper first to see how things improve with fan speed settings and maybe replacing the cables with some rounded IDE cables instead, as well as cleaning out the dust in the system.

[thekau]

Hm, just a few questions. I'm considering the various options you've given me, as well as a few others. Would it be smart to buy some sort of gpu cooler that would lower my card's temp? Or would that exhaust my psu's capabilities?

Also, when I set fan speed to auto, it just goes down to 37%, which leaves my temp at 67C (idling)... does leaving it at auto mean that the fan speed will increase when I start playing games?

[ShyguyXPC]

yes, fan should increase when temps and gaming increases, though if its idling at 67C with 37% fan speed, that is pretty high.

its probably the single slot cooler design, could also be ambient case temps, since the area below the card has little to no ventilation, the heat is trapped in that part of the case and just keeps getting recycled.


You could buy a dual slot GPU cooler to install on the card, but for the cost of a good one, you might as well just buy a newer card, they can cost a good $40-50 for the coolers, on top of the existing $50 you already spent.

[thekau]

I'm really trying to avoid having to purchase a new case, as mine is still somewhat new and no longer refundable.

Perhaps I should just see if I can return this card and buy another one with a better fan/cooling... Hmm...

[ShyguyXPC]

Damn, I went to their site and found a few cards just to see if there were any other good options to consider other than the 8800GT if you were able to return it.

GTS 450, vastly better than a 8800GT, nearly almost double the performance, if not at least 50% better.

Overview for Zotac ZT-40501-10L GeForce GTS 450 1GM GDDR5 PCI-Express 2.0 x16 Desktop Graphics Card - Refurbished - SabrePC.com

$17.00 seems WAY WAY low for a Refurb card like this, even sites like Newegg and Geeks.com don't sell these for that low, $75-80 is about as low as I have seen a GTS 450.

I've heard of the company before, but I never checked them out... I'm almost half tempted at spending a few bucks and see if these GTS 450's are worth it (I use GPU's for Folding@Home for processing), if their cool running, and not just simply cleaned up fresh pulls from out dated systems, actually refurbished items, for $17, might be worth it. But, it could be Stock from Zotac that barely met Refurb standards too.

hard to say.

But if you were looking at a cooler running card, If you can get your money back, I'd consider something newer, with a bit of extra cash spent towards the GPU, $75-80 range, something like a Radeon 6670, or Refurbished GTS 450, or even Refurbished Radeon 5750/5770/6750/6770, or if you can find a Radeon HD 7750 for cheap, the latter just came out this year, and is as fast as a 6750, in some cases the 6770, but only uses 55W of power, single slot, and no PSU plug needed.

But that SabrePC's GPU pricing is all over the board, the GTS 450's are $17, and a 2nd revision Geforce 9600GT (reduced spec and performance from the original models), are less than half the performance of a GTS 450, but nearly twice the price, with half the RAM.

A geforce 8500GT is same price as the GTS 450, and THAT card is less than half the performance of the 9600GT mentioned.


Most of it looks like Zotac Refurbs, wondering if Zotac offloaded much of their garbage cards to someone and now their selling them?



yeah, I'm looking at their $50-100 range cards now, and pricing is much more uniform, but even that is F*cked Up, a Radeon HD 5570 for $100, an OEM card, and that's a $50 range card on sites like Newegg, NEW IN RETAIL BOX.

Meanwhile outdated older cards, such as a Geforce 7900GTX is going for $100 as well, that 5570 is easily 4 times more powerful than an older card like that, at least.

A Dell OEM 9800GT (non Retail), for $100? Seriously? Thats absurd. And its a 512MB card too.


The only Cards I see that would be close to what you have now in performance, and SHOULD run cooler are these:

Overview for Zotac ZT-40702-10L GeForce GT 440 1GB GDDR5 PCI-Express 2.0 x16 Graphics Card - Refurbished - SabrePC.com

But considering its another Refurb Zotac, its hard to say whether it would be worth it.

I mean, the GTS 450's are twice this cards specs and performance, and costs less than half, makes me wonder about the condition of some of the products they sell.

This would be another option, but its priced too high, for that much you can get a brand new in box 6670 that runs a bit faster, off of newegg.

Overview for VisionTek 900370 AMD Radeon 6570 1GB DDR3 VT Retail - SabrePC.com



Shipping from these guys is a joke as well, was showing $13 or more in shipping costs for one of those $17 GTS 450's. For a Refurbished item, with no Accessories, and just the bare card, minimal amount of weight for shipping, the cards aren't that big, and to ask that much in shipping is wasted.

If you can get a refund I'd do it, and shop somewhere else.

They seem to have good reviews on our sister site ResellerRatings.com, but their pricing on some things are dirt cheap for no reasons, other items are still nearly retail pricing from 5 or more years ago.

[thekau]

Yeah, I'm gonna see if I can get a refund on this. If I can, I'll definitely be trying other places.

Graphics Card Hierarchy Chart : Best Graphics Cards For The Money: November 2010

I've been using this as a reference for what I should be aiming for.

[thekau]

Okay so I got my refund approved and I just have to return the card back to them.

I was looking at the ATI Radeon HD 4770, which I hear is a pretty good alternate to the 8800GT. I avoided a lot of the cards that consume a lot of power, and right now I'm thinking the 4770 might be my best bet. Then I also looked at the 7750, which I know is a lot better than the 4770, but much more expensive as well. Hmm...

[ShyguyXPC]

How much is the 4770 and where are you looking at it from?

the 4770 would be at least as good as the 8800GT, but depending on the price, a newer Radeon 6670 would be a good option, less power, as good in performance, and runs cooler, add in DX11 support (4770 is DX9/10 only).

[thekau]

I've been mostly searching on ebay (I'm on a budget as you can see), and I have found a few others that I'm considering:

ATI Radeon HD 4770 512MB GDDR5 PCIe Dual DVI Video Card w/S-Video Out | eBay (though now that you mention the whole DX11 thing, I kind of don't want to buy this as much)

PowerColor HD7750 PCI-E 1GB GDDR5 Video Card 4712505029566 | eBay (although the fact that it's a bid kind of scares me a little)

ZOTAC GeForce GT 440 1GB DDR3 PCIe Dual DVI Video Card w/mini-HDMI 0816264011221 | eBay (I really have no idea if I should trust ZOTAC again... and it's also manufacturer refurbished... AGAIN. But it's being sold by Geeks, so I don't know.)

I'm leaning towards this: Radeon Sapphire HD6670 1 Gb GDDR5 SKU 11192-18-20G | eBay but again, the bidding part makes me wary.

[ShyguyXPC]

Not sure why you keep taking chances on ebay rather than buying from a regular retailer...

ATI Radeon HD 4770 512MB GDDR5 PCI Express (PCIe) Dual DVI ATI HD 4770 Radeon HD 4770



PowerColor AX6670 1GBK3-H Radeon HD6670 1GB Graphics Card 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.1 x16 Video Card HDCP Ready DVI VGA HDMI-Best Computer Online Store Houston Buy Discount Prices Texas-Directron.com



If you could stretch the budget: Newegg.com - Open Box: ASUS HD7750-1GD5-V2 Radeon HD 7750 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card

otherwise that 6670 is about the best you'll get. the 4770 will lack DX11, but for the price, its a sweet deal as well.

[thekau]

Hm, actually could you explain the advantages of having a card with DX11? And what it means to have one that is limited to DX9/10?

Edit: After looking into it, I think it's very likely I'll be going for the 6670 that you linked to me.

My PSU can run it, correct?

[ShyguyXPC]

Limited to DX9/10 means that any extra eye candy features and what not that is capable under DX11 won't be able to be processed on the card.

Some top end games use advanced DX11 features, which means just less visual improvements on those cards with DX10 and below support.

games will still run on it.

[thekau]

Okay, so I think I've made my decision. I'm gonna buy the 6670 from Newegg.

Anyway, thank you SO MUCH for all the help! I can't even begin to express how grateful I am!

[ShyguyXPC]

Looks like Geeks.com just got some more cards in, a Refurbished XFX 6750 which would be a bit more powerful than the 6670, and priced cheaper as well: XFX Radeon HD 6750 1GB DDR5 PCI Express (PCIe) Dual DVI XFX HD-675X-ZMFR Radeon HD 6750