New 6950...low FPS

[Nikana]

Just picked up a new 69502GB OC version to upgrade from my 4870 512MB.

I got the new card because Diablo 3 was running a little slow every now and then, and Rage would not play nice at all with 512 VRAM.

The issue is Diablo 3 is still having some hiccups, and it seems to have more then I did with the 4870.

Rage is running worse than the 4870.

I have seen some benchmarks for the 6950 with Rage..and I believe I should be able to run it max everything without a problem. The only way I can get Rage to run without a proble is to turn off all advanced features.

I have seen that the 6950 can run BF3 max with no problems...but I am currently downloading it...cant wait to test.

Anybody have a clue why Rage is being so weird?

My specs:
Windows 7 Home Premium
AMD 1100T
16 GB Ram 1866( i think, I know its somehwere in the middle)
6950 2GB OC

[DanielMsi]

Nikana, Yes!

I had the exact same problem. I had a radeon 7970 and it performed like crap. You need to download the Radeon Rage Driver. Yes there is such a thing. Here you go:

AMD Catalystâ„¢ - Rage Performance Driver

That will fix your slow performance. My 7970 performed so crap in this game, It was laggy and buggy and low fps. Once I installed the Rage driver, Smooth as Butter. Give it a try and let me know.

As for Diablo 3, I cant say for sure. Your Processor should not be a bottleneck and should run the video card fine. What power supply are you running? You most likely are drawing to much power from the card and thats why it is choppy in all games, rather than just rage. The Rage problem is definately the Rage driver, but you could have another problem on your hands with your PSU. Not sure the specs needed for 6950 but If your power supply is less than 600watts, then there could be a problem.

Regards,

Daniel

[Nikana]

I should of put this in the original post...

I have tried the Rage drivers, but they didnt help. The frame rate was a bit better, but nothing major. The screen also kept flashing red and green. THe game performs better with current drivers.

My power supply is 750 watts.

Im thinking Diablo 3 is due to the DRM since I always have to be connected...the hiccups might be from latency.

ANy other ideas? Battlefield 3 is almost done downloading so I will be able to test the card fully in a bit.

[ShyguyXPC]

whats the brand and model of the PSU?

What are your operating temperatures? Video card temps when running the game, CPU temps, etc?

[Nikana]

Just tried Battlefield 3...everything ultra and its smooth as butter. So it has to be something with Rage.

My PSU is a ToughPower, cant seem to find the model but its says 750watts right on the side.

My temps when playing bf3 my proc is sits around 65-70 and my gpu about 65

[ShyguyXPC]

Thermaltake Toughpower, your fine with that PSU then, its overkill for your rig, you could even run a 2nd 6950 on that unit.

Well from what I read on the CPU, your CPU is Overheating, the max operating Temp of your CPU is around 62 Celsius, if your sitting at 65-70 C, then its over heating. Maybe not to the extreme of system shut down, but its running hotter than its supposed to be, which could explain some of your problems.

are you overclocking your CPU at all?

are you running your ram at its max official supported speed? 1866?

are you using an aftermarket cooler on your CPU, or the stock cooler?

etc.

[Nikana]

I am running a aftermarket cooler. I bought it like 5 years ago with my original build. I should note that the PSU is also about 5 years old. BUt I didnt run the PC that much for like 2 years. maybe once or twice a month.

I find it weird I can max of BF3...which I would think is more demanding than Rage...Is it just AMD and Rage do not get along?

I am not overclocking at all. I thought AMD chips could go to about 80 before you had problems?

My ram is clocked at 1866.

[Nikana]

QUick update. Jumped into my bios to make sure fan was good. I switched the settings from Auto to 100% and it seems to be doing a bit better, but still getting to almost 70 during gameplay.

My cooler has a switch to make it spin faster called Overclocked mode, and when i hit the it stays around 62 to 63 degrees. Im thinking it might be time for a new heatsink. any suggestions?

[ShyguyXPC]

every game is made differently, they all use different game engines, have different demands on OS, Drivers, Hardware, etc.

So no two games will be the same, unless they used the same version game engine, with out any major optimizations between them.

Take for example most of the Half Life 2 Source engine games, most will perform similarly unless major enhancements were done to the engine.


If you can run HL2 with really great frame rates, games like TF2 and Left 4 Dead and other Source games should run pretty well also.

BF3 isn't even remotely similar to D3.


Some AMD chips yes, but if you look up your CPU's info, its about 62C max operating temp, I think this is the safe max temp, not the TJunction max temp (aka TJmax or max core temp) where it will shut down though.

AMD Phenom II X6 1065T - HDT65TWFK6DGR (HDT65TWFGRBOX)

several other forums have threads where many of the members also state the max temps is the low 60's, and they keep their systems below that in the low to mid 50's as best they can.


if your using an Aftermarket CPU cooler from 5 years ago, long before this AMD 6 core was even conceived, its entirely possible it isn't up to the task of cooling it.

the PSU may be 5 years old, it should still be able to power at least one Radeon, if its that old, I'd be weary of running 2, but at least one should be fine, though, if its been through a ton of power outages, brown outs, surges, etc, it might be a bit flaky by now as well.

If your running your CPU with no overclock, there's absolutely no reason to run your RAM at 1866 either, its not giving you anything in performance, other than extra heat in the case.

I'd clock that back down to 1333MHz max for now until you decide to OC if at all.

I've got 1600MHz RAM in my system with my i7 940, and running it at 1066MHz right now, until I need to OC the CPU, then I may bump to 1600 if needed.

It does run warmer at higher clock speeds, so that isn't helping things in the case right now either. More ambient internal case temps, with an already oversaturated CPU heatsink (assuming it isn't bad thermal paste or improperly secured onto the CPU), isn't going to help the heatsink cool any better.


I'd look at getting a newer heatsink made for the AMD CPU's and some newer Thermal paste like Arctic Silver Ceramique, or something as good, and replace the HSF on the CPU for starters. As well as clock the RAM down to 1333MHz at least for now.

Also make sure cables are out of the way, and fan flows are set right.

What kind of case is this? If you know the brand and model list that.

[ShyguyXPC]

I just read your follow up post, looks like I answered most of that in the last reply LOL.


If you can answer the case question, or at least post a pic of your case, and the side panel off to see the inside of it, we can suggest a decent Heatsink, maybe some fan upgrades to help cool things if needed.

[Nikana]

Newegg.com - NZXT Apollo Red SECC Steel Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

Newegg.com - EVERCOOL HPD-815 80mm Ever Lubricate CPU Cooler

those are my cpu cooler and Case

would i be better off using the stock CPU cooler?

[Nikana]

quick update again.

I swicthed to the stock cooler just to see what would happen. I applied some thermal paste to and i noticed the area around the heat pipes was definitley bigger.

I fired it up and using CoreTemp the temperatures are defintiley down. But the fan is crazy loud. Sounds like a jet taking off. So I will definitley want a new fan. WIll this work?

I am not sure how to tell if it has the easy AMD clip. I would really like something that doesnt require me to take my computer apart.

Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus RR-B10-212P-G1 "Heatpipe Direct Contact" Long Life Sleeve 120mm CPU Cooler Compatible Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7

or this

Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Hyper TX3 RR-910-HTX3-G1 "Heatpipe Direct Contact" 92mm CPU Cooler

ive seen a few other forums list this one

Newegg.com - XIGMATEK LOKI SD963 92mm HYPRO Bearing CPU Cooler bracket included I7 i5 775 1155 AMD and dual fan push pull compatible

[ShyguyXPC]

Oh god, that cooler is under "powered" for your CPU, hell, 5 years ago it was under performing for top end CPU's back then.

Dinky little 80mm fan, its no wonder your CPU is overheating.


as to the case, its a bit smallish, but workable, do you have a front mounted 120mm fan as well, or just the side and rear fans?



I can vouch for all of those Heatsinks your looking at, I have used the Xigmatek Dark Knight 120mm Cooler, the first in the entire series from 3-4 years ago, for Socket 1366 platform Intel CPU's, its a great cooler, fan can get a bit loud at high temps, but does a good job of cooling. The Loki is a smaller version, for more lower performing CPU's, or cooler running CPU's, but would be a good choice.

Though the Xiggy heatsinks can be very tall, and may not allow you to close your case panel all the way, I have a Thermaltake Armor case that I had to remount my 250mm side fan on the outside of the case to fit the 120mm Xiggy cooler.







This is the Xiggy HSF I have, though I have to clean it out every so often with where I'm at, but you can see how tall it is, the 92mm Loki should be shorter, but my Thermaltake Armor case is extra wide as well, a good inch wider than most cases from its time, with only the Coolermaster Stacker series cases being its direct competitors in size.



The Coolermaster Hyper TX3 would be a decent stand in.

but if you can fit the Hyper 212+ (I have the 212+ also).


The 212+ does not have the AMD quick latch, it uses a Universal all in one back plate bracket attachment, so you'd have to remove the AMD retention bracket/frame and take the mobo out of the case to install it all.

The Loki also uses the same concept in mounting.


But looks like it would fit fine.



Most of the newer GOOD coolers will require you to mount a rear bracket under the motherboard to secure it to the CPU.

The TX3 however requires you to screw the AMD mounts to the heatsink and then old school AMD Athlon XP like mounting of the clips to the Stock AMD Retention Frame.


This Arctic Cooling HSF would be fine as well:

Newegg.com - ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 92mm Fluid Dynamic CPU Cooler


Newegg.com - ARCTIC COOLING ACFZ13 92mm High Performance CPU Cooler for Intel and AMD

That 2nd one also mounts the same way as the 1st one and the CM TX3 cooler.

My money would be on this one. I have use AC's coolers in past, the original Series Freezer Series coolers and they were always good, quiet running and effective in cooling (used on my Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Quad CPU's in past).

the 92mm sized ones should fit in your case.

that 2nd one, can support up to 200W's of heat dissipation, so basically ANY stock clocked CPU on the market it will cool effectively.




Another option for cooling and a good brand is this Scythe HSF:

Newegg.com - Scythe SCKC-2000 140mm Grand Kama Cross TOP-Flow CPU Cooler

It uses the AMD quick latch, and has a sizable 140mm fan for surface area.

though it can be quite large in area it covers, and depending on your Mobo Chipset heatsink for the North Bridge and where the Video card is positioned how close it is to the CPU, the heatsink might be a tight fit or blocked by the NB Heatsink.

plus it would cover your RAM slots and be harder to add/remove RAM.

Its a good heatsink, but its a bit unwieldy.


The AC HSF's are more better for airflow IMO though, as they direct Air towards the back to be exhausted out right away, the Scythe will direct air downwards and out in all directions which could cause pockets of warmer air in the front part of the case near the RAM and front drive bays, though the rear case fan should exhaust it, but still. Not sure which 6950 you have, if it uses standard fan style or the blower type fan that vents all air out the back of the case, but if its the standard style fan, it will be venting some of the cards heat into the case as well, which adds up also.

IMO, the tower type heatsinks like the 3 your linked and the 2 AC models I linked would be best for your case design.

[ShyguyXPC]

For Heatsinks for my current PC, I got rid of large heatsinks this time around and installed a Corsair H60 Liquid Cooling kit instead, saves room and space in the case, easier to get at other components, and runs much quieter paired with the right fans.

Though it requires the Mobo to be removed and mount the initial underside mounting bracket, but once the bracket is installed, you can add/remove the CPU Heatsink/Waterblock/Pump as many times as you want, with out taking the board out of the PC again.


Cheapest of these kits right now is the Corsair H40: Newegg.com - CORSAIR H40 High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler

Xigmatek makes an all in One kit as well, but its rather large, and uses a dinky 80mm fan...

Newegg.com - XIGMATEK AIO-S80DP All-in-one liquid cooling system

it would also require the entire mobo to be removed for mounting.


for the cost and dimensions of this kit, you'd be better off getting a regular Active air cooling Heatsink fan instead, like the ones above.

[Nikana]

Thanks alot for all your help!

I went with the H40. Pretty much for the cooling i want it was the only thing that would fit in my case.

My local computer store acutalyl had one for 60 bucks, so i picked it up. LIttle pricey, but it will be worth it. Computer now idols around 25-26 C

[ShyguyXPC]

so they already installed it and everything?



When they installed it, if thats what they did, did they make sure to install the Radiator oriented like mine, with the tubes coming into the radiator in from the bottom like in my pic below?



If so, then it should be fine, if they were installed the other way with tubes at top, there is still some air in the system/loop, and with tubes positioned like that, the setups may make a bit of a grinding noise with the pump if there is air trapped in the loop cycle. if oriented like the way I have mine, the air stays trapped in the top part of the radiator and doesn't get cycled through the loop, and keeps motor running smoothly and quietly like its supposed to.

But figured to ask to be sure.

[Nikana]

I couldnt mount it with the raditator on the bottom because it would be to long. I did on the side. There is no grinding noise coming from the cooler.

I have an extra 120 mm fan since the h40 came with one. Should I mount it and double fan it like you have?

[ShyguyXPC]

Not sure I know what you mean with mounting it on the side? Side panel, or you turned the radiator so the tubes come out towards the side panel?

you could, but you should make sure the fans specs match (CFM rating, Static Air Pressure, RPM rating, etc).

plus you'd have to source out 4 screws at the local hardware store to mount the 2nd fan, since it doesn't come with a 2nd set of screws, only the H80 or higher models do.

the radiator doesn't use the same size screws cases use for fans.

I'd have to dig around in my files somewhere for the screw size, I know I posted it here somewhere on TechIMO as well, in comments from back in the fall, or late winter, but I post so much it could take me hours to find it.

can you take a pic of what it looks like?

if your looking at some good fans for the Radiator, the Noctua NF-P12's I have are good, but they usually cost about $25 a piece.

Scythe's Gentle Typhoon series fans are recommended, much cheaper, but they were in short supply for a while since the manufacturing plant was hit by the quake in japan last year.


Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120mm x 25mm Fan - 1450 RPM (D1225C12B4AP-14) - FrozenCPU.com

Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120mm x 25mm Fan - 1850 RPM (D1225C12B5AP-15) Hot Item !! - FrozenCPU.com

one of those two would be fine, the 1st is a bit quieter and would be more than enough for cooling a stock CPU, even with a mild OC, for moderate OCing the 2nd one would be better, but is a tad louder in volume, but still relatively quiet running compared to other fans out there.

the fans need to be in a Push Pull configuration. Corsair recommends it intakes from the rear, and exhausts into the case, to be vented by case fans in the case, such as case with fans up top.

but can be mounted to fans take air in from inside the case and vent out the back, really depends on the case in question, your case would be one I'd consider venting out the back instead, since it has so few areas to vent heat from the radiator out.

my case, has the top mount 140mm fan, mesh front drive bays, 2nd 140mm spot up top thats empty, side panel has 1x 140mm spots, one next to Radiator is empty with an intake fan below that for the GPU's cooling, so it has plenty of spots for heat to vent or bleed out of the case, to have the fans intake from the rear. since my Window AC is right behind the case, I have cool air blowing across the radiator right now helping cool things as well.

[Nikana]

Yea i had to turn it so the radiator is on the side, but the piece itself in on my back fan.

I might hold off on the second fan. Strapped for cash at the moment

[ShyguyXPC]

honestly before grabbing a 2nd fan, I'd look at maybe a new case with better fan positions and cooling/room. A decent one doesn't cost a whole lot, you can get some decent cases for around $40 these days on sites like Newegg. NZXT, Coolermaster, HEC/Compucase, even some of Neweggs Name brand Rosewill cases aren't bad.

At least this way, you have a tad more room, better cooling, and can place the radiator the way it should be placed in the case.