Where has the magic gone?

[Epidemic]

The bible and history if filled with magic.

Pharoh had magician (sorcerer, wizzard what ever) who made a stick become a snake. Yet with all the sorcerers power moses's power was greater. now the key to this story is not that god was more powerful than pharoh. I find it interesting that pharoh had any magic. I should have expected a comedy sketch where pharohs wizzard dropped his staff and it hit the ground with a clang and bounce but remained a staff.

God felt compelled to blow up cities, flood worlds, turn people into salt because of corruption, but cities around the world seem to meet or exceed sodom and gamorah's best.

Today the best ~sorcerer (psychics) can maybe predict with 25% accuracy, bend a spoon, and or move a match under glass.

Where did all the magic go!

If god is the only true god the only magic in the world and all other magic was merely the fruit of fertile imagination or ignorance. This might make sense but for the bible's reference to non god generated magic.

So if the bible is the final word and magic exists outside the realm of god. Then where is that magic. Why are sticks not turned into snakes? How were arts like this lost to history? did god take the power away from man between 10th and 18th century?

Did the magic never exist but for word of mouth? Did the written chronicalling of history and more universal literacy kill magic?

[jman01pa]

I dont believe magic ever existed.

I think its a combination of illusion, imagination and literacy. Imagine what Blackstone, Henning and Copperfield could do in the days of old.

[Epidemic]

Taking the bible as fact.

Moses and pharohs minion did battle in public dropping staffs and producing serpents (who then did battle ) If biblical fact then not only did they create snakes but they also controlled them making them fight. Heck of a trick for two unrelated adversarial parties to pull off with out mirrors and pre planning.

[Zotzmein]

Some have suggested that the power of the Pharaoh’s sorcerers was divined from Satan; though Pharaoh did not knowingly worship the fallen angel, Lucifer was the source of their magic.

See davidamarkley comment toward the bottom of page one.

Who refuses to see "The Passion"?

Regards,
Zotz Mein

PS. I agree though, Where has the magic gone?

[Epidemic]

Ok that would be interesting if satan was the source. However I do not see any reference in the bible as to god stripping satan of his power so one would still assume that satan would still use such tricks to win converts to him.

[osprey4]

Satan is full of tricks but he prefers subtlety. Remember, no biblical description of Satan ever has him looking anything other than beautiful and compelling.

[Bovon]

IMO (and from what I have been taught), In the BC years, the peoples were controlled by God, by spirit and selected followers, such as Moses etc.

In this time, God did not ever appear in human form and sit down with humans. What humans got out of their beliefs was gained from the spirit thru the righteous followers who received instructions from God in dreams.

Humans made sacrifices to show that they believed in the "Holy Spirit" (God).

The spiritual leaders, such as Moses were given enormous power, based on their leadership, their strength in their own beliefs and their will to do battle with unbelievers, no matter who they were.

God gave these spiritual leaders the power needed as they combated the evil in others....such as the story about the snakes.

After Christ came to earth, and died on the cross...all sin was relieved of the human race. All that is necessary from that time was for any human to believe that Christ was the son of God, that he died to relieve all humans of the sins they inherited.

At this time, there would not be more leaders such as an all powerful 'Moses'...these leaders were not needed by the population to read and understand the teachings...remember, back in Moses day, there was no books, no real written language..no way for the leaders to teach the followers except by words spoken and by deeds...some of which were designed to be "magical" to force those on the fence to sit up and take notice.

After Christ came and went, AD years, the Old Testament was no more..that phase of Christianity was complete..it is retained in our Bibles as a reference only.

But, to sum it up...as I understand it, we are now governed by our ability to believe in Jesus as the son of God. Miracles are no longer permitted..it is "blind" faith that guides a Christian.

Also, there are "stories" in the Bible, that when read for face value, they can be taken as a real happening, when in fact..they are teachings for simple minded peoples.

Be careful as you read, if you are serious at all.

[Epidemic]

The concept of magic has been assaulted on many fronts AFAIAC.

I feel that Bad weather, plagues, and mental disorders were often attributed to magic or non natural/physical occurances. this and word of mouth (aka the telephone game) allows for magic in the past but not in a well documented educated world.

[John Prophet]

magic,voodoo,spells,incantations,demon possession,levitation,mind reading etc etc....all these things still exist...the people who do these things..whether they realize it or not, recieve the power from satan.

We have a hard time seeing it in our western societies because we just wont believe in it...same as people just refuse to believe in God....we are TOTALLY ruled by "rational thinking" over here...even to the point of sometimes refusing to believe what our eyes plainly see because our minds cant explain it. So a western mind has a hard time believing in either God or Satan.

Go to central-south America/Africa/the Orient/India/parts of europe...ask them if spellcasting/magic/charms etc exist and they will laugh and look at you as if you asked them if a taxi cab existed.

----

Also, of course, miracles from God still exist...they are seen on occasion, again, not usually in western countries due to a total lack of belief/faith....also due to the fact that modern Christians are so compromised that the power of God just wont "run thru them"...in effect we are liked clogged water pipes, the power just wont flow. Its not that we are necessarilly "evil" or "bad" Christians...it's just that we are so caught up in things that compromise us and we dont realize it..no one preaches it and no one wants to admit it or see it. The preachers would rather make excuses for the lack of power even though they claim to follow the same God as in the book of acts.

I will give one tiny example of the type of compromise that weighs us down. THE PACE OF OUR MODERN LIVES. This is a major consideration that no one realizes..no one speaks about it..no one seems to try to do anything about it. But it is plain that the things of God take time to acquire...the knowledge in the bible must be meditated upon, it cant be learned in 15 minute readings twice a week...or by listening to a "sermon" while you drive in heavy traffic on the way to work,lol. We dont give it the time it requires and we feel okay about it cuz we reason it away and give ourselves excuses, saying in a whiney voice..."well, a man has to pay his bills".

We dont realize things like our tv watching...how it affects us. They finally just came out with a study showing how kids get attention defecit disorder from watching Tv....DUH!!!! The "pace" of TV and radio..with its BOOM BOOM BOOM speed and constant fast talking commercials TOTALLY militates AGAINST the quiet peaceful frame of mind needed to glean and absorb things from the bible....so we have preprogrammed ourselves to be shallow Christians. We have allowed satan himself to order our lives and we (as Christians) wonder why we have no power/peace/influence etc etc

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and I must admit that I am the worst of all, because I see all these things..yet I havent mustered the "wherewithal" to do anything much about it yet. ( I haven't given up though,lol)

JP

[Epidemic]

Quote:

magic,voodoo,spells,incantations,demon possession,levitation,mind reading etc etc....all these things still exist...the people who do these things..whether they realize it or not, recieve the power from satan.

We have a hard time seeing it in our western societies because we just wont believe in it...same as people just refuse to believe in God....we are TOTALLY ruled by "rational thinking" over here...even to the point of sometimes refusing to believe what our eyes plainly see because our minds cant explain it. So a western mind has a hard time believing in either God or Satan.

Go to central-south America/Africa/the Orient/India/parts of europe...ask them if spellcasting/magic/charms etc exist and they will laugh and look at you as if you asked them if a taxi cab existed.

I would buy into that argument however the flip side of that is that the (typically) undereducated cultures where VooDoo are rampant are the same fertile grounds where myths of old began.

Under scientific scruitiny virtually all magic would appear to be false. when under scrutiny the magic just does not work. Like watching penn and teller on stage. some magic is unexplained but generally speaking no one today can make a stick into a snake either with satans help while the camera is rolling.

Even chemicals are implicated in the whole zombi thing.

All in all psychics seem to be terribly unpredictable under lab conditions, spoon benders the same. there are no people who transmute matter.

It would seem that magic only happens in front of belivers. Much the same as when people thought the sun was toted by a chariot, and when someone survives a brush with death in battle being attributed to the god of war or crops failing due to drought.