Correlations b/w Iraqi Prisoner Abuse and My Lai Massacre

[tangluva]

I think this issue in itself needs to be a topic, in all seriousness. I want to quote myself from ShawnD1's post:

Originally posted by tangluva:

I was going to stay neutral in politics, but this matter in particular just has me too emotional on the consequences:

In regards to this prisoner abuse scandal in Iraq, this war is now starting to look like the Vietnam war. And yes, IT IS IMPORTANT TO ME because I am a first generation Vietnamese-American, and have learned through my family, society, and education of how cruel and biased Americans can be. One example is the My Lai Massacre, where 300 innocent civilians, mostly women and children, were killed by American soldiers. What did the American government do about it? They have the soldiers a mere slap on the wrist. (see link for more information on My Lai Massacre) Is that justice for the innocent civilians? Is justice only for Americans, and not other people too? Most importantly, is this notion of "democracy" the type of message we want to convey to other nations? What I am afraid is that these soldiers who committed these atrocities will get the same slap on the wrist, just like the soldiers in the My Lai Massacre.

This trial that these soldiers are in will result in 2 ways:

If G.W. Bush gets re-elected, he will most certainly give these soldiers a slap on the wrist, because the Iraq war is his war. He will not let anything compromise what he wants, therefore he will let them go without anyone knowing about it.

If John Kerry wins, he will bring these men to justice and give them the punishment they deserve, because he had to fight in the Vietnam War, under the same conditions that caused the My Lai Massacre.

That is the reason why you vote. In the political involvement post I made, I wanted to just give others some motivation to vote on anyone. But since all this happened, it has hit me harder emotionally, causing me to stop any of our rights, as well as the rights of others, from being exploited by that select few.

Here is another link about the photographer in the My Lai Massacre . This is more proof that the Iraqi Prisoner Abuse is like the My Lai Massacre. I admit that the G.W. Bush quote is kind of assumed, but I still urge you all to have more political involvement, so at least he can be pressured to bring these soldiers to justice. This is ridiculous. I am not going to let Iraqis face the same atrocities my cousins had to face, not ending at the My Lai Massacre.

[tangluva]

Here, another important link. You think this massacre never happened? Google it, and you will get more results. Also, you think the Vietnam war does not correlate with the Iraqi War? That is where your misinformation comes in. Now is your chance to understand that history should not repeat itself.

[Chuckiechan]

The only correlation between Mai Lia and the Iraq prison abuse is that it was done by rogue soliders who will get a trial and punishment.

As far as your comments about hanging by Kerry and slap on the wrist by GWB, you only see life through your partisan filtered goggles.

And the only correlation between Viet Nam and Iraq is that the anti war politicians are on the band wagon early. If there wasn't an election in six months Kennedy would be a lone voice in the forest. We have a long way to go before Iraq can be compared to Viet Nam.

I'd say there is more at stake here, though.

[tangluva]

Please read the links. They are important because:

1. The innocent lives lost and exploited because of anger from American soldiers.
2. The bias that Americans infer because they are American soldiers, and not criminals themselves.
3. The cover-up on the My Lai Massacre, and the cover-up that Republicans (esp. Tom DeLay) are trying to do with the Iraqi Prisoner Abuse.
4. The wish that we could have done more to prevent atrocities in the Vietnam war, and the possible wish that we could have done something about Iraq.

It is not like I am in support of Saddam Hussein or any Islamic terrorists, but I am not in support about the misuse of American democracy as well.

[M_Six]

...you only see life through your partisan filtered goggles.

And you don't?

[MTAtech]

Actually, it is more like the British in 1920 than Vietnam.

[tangluva]

Actually, it is more like the British in 1920 than Vietnam.

Yeah, it is more correlative to the British in 1920, but I'm trying to put this in more relevance to what has happened in America, and what is happening to America right now, so others can comprehend better.

Look, I'll use myself as an analogy: Is it right for me to kill an innocent Iraqi because I'm American? Shouldn't I be tried for murder, or should I be pardoned just because I am an American, even though I killed an innocent person? BTW, this is for those who still cannot understand the relevance between Iraqi Prisoner Abuse and My Lai Massacre.

[Epidemic]

so we are not to equate shooting women and children with embarrasing people.

Wow!

Personally I do not see the correlation. Was the abuse right in iraq? I am not all to sure what the reality of war dictates beyond the nice words of the GC. But to compare killing 300 unarmed men women and children with stripping someone naked and having a woman laugh at their privates is warped.

Was this a sign of escallation that would lead to massacres of similiar nature? Perhaps.

The long and short of this is that UNlike vietnam (where it continued with brass blessing), in Iraq, in january things were being reigned in and investigations were launched.

[MTAtech]

I don't know anyone that is defending the abuses (including the possible murders) in Iraq and Afghanistan, especially me. I was 12 when the My Lai Massacre happened and I spoke out against it then.

I do not believe the My Lai Massacre had upper level sanctions. I am less certain about prisoner abuse in Iraq.

Surely, every guilty person should get a fair and proportional punishment.

[tangluva]

Originally posted by Epidemic:
Personally I do not see the correlation. Was the abuse right in iraq? I am not all to sure what the reality of war dictates beyond the nice words of the GC. But to compare killing 300 unarmed men women and children with stripping someone naked and having a woman laugh at their privates is warped.

This is the American political bias I am talking about, once again. The My Lai Massacre is personal to me because these were my people hurt. The Iraqi Prisoner Abuse reflects the pain and suffering that Muslims receive by the oppressors (ex. Israelis and Americans). Trust me, I have talked to Muslim people at UH, and some feel ashamed to mention they are Muslim because Americans are biased towards hating Muslims, even though not all Muslims are involved in terrorism.

And me being warped? Put yourself in the perspective of being oppressed by Americans, and you'll feel the pain I feel that makes me "warped".

[Epidemic]

Having been captured in a war I would expect sleep deprivation, embarrasment, and beatings. I would definitely not enjoy it. It would suck big time. But lets compare a little here.

If I have the choice of being embarrased or having my wife and children shot I will take the embarrasment.

If the choice is being stripped naked and stacked in a pyramid or having my fingers broken one by one I would choose the naked stack.

would I preferr to be put in a cell and fed 3 meals a day and allowed to exercise daily and interact with fellow military comrads. Yep absolutely.

As a member of the military I would expect about a week of inhumane treatment while they tried to gleen information about the next offensive.

[tangluva]

Originally posted by Epidemic:
would I preferr to be put in a cell and fed 3 meals a day and allowed to exercise daily and interact with fellow military comrads. Yep absolutely.

Wait, you are forgeting the part where you are being oppressed by the American. Tell me this: does American democracy stand for oppressing others to have your way again?

American soldiers didn't do this during World War II, because they were too worried about three other oppressors: Mussolini, Hitler, and Hirohito. That is American forces at its best: to defend and not to offend.

[Epidemic]

Actually I am quite sure that enemy soldiers were tortured to varying degrees even during WWII.

Fact you have a soldier,

Assumed fact they may have some intel you need for tomorrows battle.

Fact most soldiers will resist giving info to certain degrees.

Fact Failure to get intel may get yourself or your buddies killed.

You expect me to believe that a few punches and lives were not threatened.



I am just not sure I believe that any nations army would not have a few soldiers who would react with torture to varying degrees to acquire information. However there are not many nations who would correct the problem.

As for oppression, I am not sure we are oppressing the population per say. But the prisoners are definetly oppressed. I believe that oppression is the definition of oppression.

[John Prophet]

"it's another vietnam" is sort of a "card" that gets thrown down sort of like 'racism'...sort of a cover everything type of thing to say when you oppose something....anything concerning a person of color is deemed "racism"..and any military action is called "another vietnam"....but I doubt any two wars are really all THAT similar.

[tangluva]

Okay, in some instances, the WWII analogy is not the best to use.

Originally posted by Epidemic:
As for oppression, I am not sure we are oppressing the population per say. But the prisoners are definetly oppressed. I believe that oppression is the definition of oppression.

That is the point I am making. Of course, killing and harassing are different things, but it is the oppression that I am trying to correlate. What I am trying to correlate as well is this cover-up Republicans are trying to do that is pissing me off. Like I said earlier, I do not want Iraqis to receive the injustice that many people of my race had to go through with not just the My Lai Massacre, but all of the other rapes, harrasments, and unnecessary killings that were scattered all over Vietnam that were committed by U.S. Soldiers.

Seriously, one of my old friends prided himself as a white male off of U.S. Soldiers raping Korean and Vietnamese women and children. This is no lie. That is why I don't talk to this guy anymore (other than the fact that he now sells ecstacy and is probably in prison by now). I'm not trying to compare anyone posting to my old friend, but I am proving the point of what American pride can do to a person's outlook on life.

I don't want these U.S. Soldiers in Iraq getting off with a slap on the wrist, just like how U.S. Soldiers in Vietnam were, esp. the ones involved in the My Lai Massacre.

BTW, kinda off-topic, but is there any way of overturning a pardon by a president? That is how Lt. Calley got off with murder from the My Lai Massacre, by having damn Nixon pardon him. He needs to go back to prison, instead of selling insurance.

[Bill in SD, CA]

You can tell a lot by someone's avatar.



Bill

[tangluva]

Gosh, some people take a joke literally.

[Bill in SD, CA]

Gosh, some people take a joke literally.

I was grinning!



Bill

[tangluva]

I kinda knew, but wasn't sure, so I set the statement up joking or not.

I was also being a little sarcastic, as I am kind of literal in this thread.

[Epidemic]

In vietnam the US supported one side of the conflict. Did the Vietcong kill civillians and torture people including civillians. did they massacre villiages? Or were they saints just helping the oppressed?