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  1. #21
    nuisance since 1968 OuTpaTienT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gomer
    Where I am today:
    Late Friday night, the fog cleared a bit. I started feeling strong again, more rational. I don’t know if was as a result of posting this or what. I don’t think it was that so much. I think it was more a realization of what my problems were finally… and the fact that I feel like I can address them now.
    Don't be so quick to discount the value of you "spilling your guts", even if it is to us "text pages on the Internet". Talking about things that are troubling you can have an immeasurable positive effect. I'm rather introverted in real life and it has taken me many years of bottling up and hiding everything in my life that was too painful to deal with or too embarrassing to expose. But often, simply telling your troubles to a friend can go a tremendously long way towards you being able to get over that hump in your life and move on. I don't understand why or how it works, and logically it doesn't make sense to me, but it is true about what they say regarding bottling up your emotions. Don't do it. Cry on someone's shoulder (figuratively speaking or otherwise), anyone's shoulder...even if it's just us "text pages on Internet".

    (I'm hoping to be upgraded to a full fledged "graphic site on the Internet" one day. )

    Bottom line Gomes, it's part of life to feel depressed, sad, etc. on an occasional basis. It's a clinical syndrome when that down feeling is constant. Sounds like you've have a pretty rough childhood so it would be normal and expected to also experience an abnormally high amount of those depressed times. But that doesn't necessarily mean you have been depressed the entire time. You mention that your gf was a source of joy in your life. The fact that you can identify and acknowledge a source of joy indicates you probably haven't been clinically depressed 24/7 over the recent years.

    Unfortunately, attempting to be diagnosed for depression right after (or during) a major breakup with a long time gf is probably about as helpful as putting a fresh, mirror-finish paintjob on your demolition derby car, right before the next heat. Well, maybe that's a stupid analogy, I'll have to work on a better one, but I think you know what I'm getting at. Of course you're depressed right now. You'd be a freak of nature if you weren't.

    And I don't see how you can effectively deal with any other depression you may have until you are able to get through this more powerful recent depression. You know what I mean? And I see no painless answer to this problem. I would have to say there are only two workable scenarios regarding your gf. 1.) That she rejoin you and you guys continue to work on the relationship in concert with you starting to work on any deep seeded depression you may have. 2.) You come to terms with the breakup as being finalized and you two go your separate ways, and then after an intense period of the heartbreak you can then go to work on any of those deep seeded issues. ANYTHING IN BETWEEN THOSE TWO SITUATIONS (like you guys continuing to "be friends" and you dangling along the whole time in hopes to rekindle the relationship) IS GOING TO BE NOTHING BUT TROUBLE. This is one of those times I hate being right.

    But regardless of what happens from here on out, you WILL be keeping us updated on your progress and you WILL be getting things off your chest by talking to us. And if you ever need a "text page on the Internet" to confide in, you know how to PM or email me. Hang in there...just because you can't see the end of the tunnel just yet doesn't mean there isn't one...as long as there are tracks, keep the train chuggin' along.

  2. #22
    Ultimate Member rastorize's Avatar
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    Nicely put OuT...

  3. #23
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    Well Gomer...from here I am reading what you are saying...but it isnt jiving....

    Gomer
    And I still am extremely comfortable with my spiritual life. If Jesus made you that is fine by me. I am glad that works for you. However, I am very confident that is not the panacea for me.
    you say you are "extrememly comfortable" and also "very confident"....not to belabour the point but it doesnt really sound that way to me.

    how can one who is grasping for answers be SO confident?? sort of a contradiction huh

    Like I said, I am not going to belabour the points I have made...but some creedence should be given to the fact that I am THROUGH my manic/constant depression....anyway, you know my PM address if needed.

    JP
    "Even a fool is thought to be wise if he is silent"

  4. #24
    Ultimate Member ShawnD1's Avatar
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    Gomer, are you a part of anything that is organized? Do you play Hockey? Do you take tae kwon do? Are you involved in religion/cult/Dungeons & Dragons?

    Like you, I have a lot of problems with social interactions, but I've found that being a part of something really helps.

    Try joining a church and start taking karate.
    Last edited by ShawnD1; July 18th, 2004 at 08:18 PM.

  5. #25
    Goverment property now GroundZero3's Avatar
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    Gomer sorry to hear of the break up and such. Just wanted to put my two cents in even know you already made a decision. My story with a girl who was on meds is something like like blaze. She was bi polar and they had her on everything and anything maybe her a zombie. I dated her for over 7 months and let me tell you the drugs made her a zombie. So i would suggest the drug route later down the road.

    it takes a big man to admit his problems and to spill out his guts on the forum. I did it a while back (sysopt days)

    I hope things work out and i would agree with shawn. I dont get out often cause im always playing computer games but one thing that gets me out of the house is the gym and combat hapkido. Gives me a feel of control in my life.

    Keep us updated Gomer

  6. #26
    nuisance since 1968 OuTpaTienT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Prophet
    Well Gomer...from here I am reading what you are saying...but it isnt jiving....
    Just a friendly fyi, it's jibing, not jiving. That's one of those weird words that eluded me too for some time.

  7. #27
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    yes, its important as grown men pour out their guts that they use proper grammar, lol.
    "Even a fool is thought to be wise if he is silent"

  8. #28
    Ultimate Member DanGrease's Avatar
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    Wow, I did a quick search in google of the antidepressant that I have been taking for a year now. I searched for the main substance of this medicine which is Paroxetine and I found out that this antidepressant is called Paxil in the US while here in Europe (officially United Kingdom) it is called Seroxat.

    I am 16, an adolescence. When I moved to Brazil two years ago I experienced what I like to call fear. Two years ago my dad got the chance of living and working in Brazil for two years, and he accepted the offer which meant we had to move from Sweden. I was fine with it until I realized I had a really tough time to get used to my new life.

    I felt really bad. Got into depression. Everything just went downhill. School, friends, sports, everything. I cried alot and suffered like I have never done before. It was hell for me to be honest. Specially school. I didn't notice until that point though that I have always had a sord of mild social phobia (social anxiety).

    It came to a point that my parents just had to search for professional help for me since everything seemed to get worse each day. I tried two psychiatrics before ending up with the third that really helped me. I was diagnosed with Dysthymia. Same as you Gomer. He prescribed Paxil (Seroxat) to me, and now Ive been taking it for more than a year actually. I was also recommended to do some psychoanalysis with another psychiatric, but I just had some sessions with this doctor and found out it didn't help me, so I just decided to stick with just the pills.

    For me it has made wonders. It has helped me so much. After one month of use I started to get into the normal rhythm I had before. School was getting better for me, social interactions were made with no problems and my social phobia disappeared.

    Look, I came to a point where I couldn't continue alone. My brain was getting confused with itself and I just couldn't handle it. I was also VERY skeptical with the idea of using drugs/medication, especially of being afraid of getting addicted to the pills. But now I don't regret using this drug. It has made wonders to me. I believe I will take it one more year and then slowly stop taking it. I do believe I will be able at that point to live a normal life without taking the drug since my brain has "matured" in my opinion. I see my life with different eyes now and I know much more about myself than before.

    Of course that not all fears have disappeared. Some of them are still in my head. I am used to them though, and everybody has different types of fears anyways. Its just normal. But now I can live a normal life even with some of these fears. Most of the critical ones disappeared after using the medication for a period of time.

    First weeks using the pills were the worst ones. Since your body is not used to this medication, you will suffer some side effects that can be mild or strong. I had headaches, stomach pains, nausea, and an allergy in my belly. Nothing more than this though. Took about three weeks for my body to fully accept the medication and for it to make full effect.

    The first effects of it that I noticed where:
    ~ Better self-esteem
    ~ More courage
    ~ Less Social Anxiety
    ~ Less General Anxiety
    ~ More appetite
    (I was very skinny at the time, this helped me alot to gain weight and receive a normal, not under average, body weight. Gained like 15KG+ in one year. This is a known side effect of this medication, but for me it wasn't. This "side effect" helped me alot to get into a healthy body weight. May be a nasty side effect for other people, specially women that don't want to gain weight at all.)
    ~ More awareness of my environment

    I take a pill (20 mg) of Paxil (Seroxat) every morning with my breakfast. Its been a routine of mine for over a year now. I was going to slowly start reducing the medication after a year, and I did. But I noticed right away that it wasn't right. I started to get terrible headaches, shakiness, dizziness, etc. I went to a doctor once again and he told me that I wasn't ready to quit taking the drug and thats why my body reacted this way. He told me to take it for another year and then try out to slowly quit taking the pills. Don't know how my body will react to that after taking these pills for one more year, but I hope its positive at least.

    Anyways, my advice to you is its always better to not use medication and try to fight against the depression without any medical help. But sometimes this is impossible for some people (I was one of them) and medication is needed in my opinion. If you feel that you really need something for you to cope better with your depression, then medication is a good choice.

    Hope this helped you, and I wish you the best luck buddy!
    dan
    Last edited by DanGrease; July 18th, 2004 at 09:26 PM.

  9. #29
    nuisance since 1968 OuTpaTienT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Prophet
    yes, its important as grown men pour out their guts that they use proper grammar, lol.
    It was simply a piece of knowledge I offered you that could conceivably one day keep you from looking like an idiot. But alas I have no power over some things.

    (Gomie, I know you just wouldn't feel right unless this thread got crapped just a teeny little bit...so this one's for you. )

  10. #30
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    no, I just KNEWWWW you couldnt resist, lol..you had to find SOMETHING wrong, lol..predictable

    and u couldnt resist the public post...the pm route wouldnt have fit your purposes
    "Even a fool is thought to be wise if he is silent"

  11. #31
    ph34r t3h g04t Whir's Avatar
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    Nor, apparently, would it have fit yours, JP?

    That'll be the end of this, comprende?

  12. #32
    Fact Checker Gomer's Avatar
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    Well, when I posted Friday I think it was… I said I was feeling better. For the most part I still am. I am pretty sure I have climbed out of the major funk and regained function again (i.e. eating, sleeping, thinking clearly etc.).

    As far as the meds goes… I am not as dead set against them as I felt on Friday, but it is not a step I am going to take right now. I went from felling 90% sure I wanted them after they said I needed them, to 90% sure I didn’t on Friday, to about 35% confident I might want them. I talked to my best friend about it finally (he’s a pharmacist, was off the grid) and he doesn’t see anything wrong with them. His wife’s family has a fair bit of experience with them and has had success. For the time being, I am continuing therapy… and the books I ordered will arrive via UPS tomorrow.

    Before I comment on your comments… I thought I’d share an experience that gives some insight into the social phobia/anxiety.

    I served as the Best Man at my best friends wedding over a year ago. Before and through the wedding, just your typical nerves with that sort of thing was all that bothered me. To start the reception, I gave a speech. No problems there really. Sure I was nervous… but it was an excellent speech.

    Following the dinner is where things fell apart. During the dancing I wanted to disappear… and did the best job I could. Leaving my girlfriend to fend for herself among many people she didn’t know (which really upset her). I’d try to busy myself tending to things that didn’t really need tending to so I could avoid the situations… What I was avoiding were the overwhelming feelings that people were evaluating me. I felt sick with the whole situation. Sick that I couldn’t bring myself to dance with my girlfriend. And the few times there and other places I slowdanced with her was the greatest thing ever. But I could not overcome the anxiety I had in order to do it.

    It was like that at all the wedding receptions I had to go to. The sad thing about it was the impression I gave people by sitting there looking uncomfortable and unhappy had to be ten times worse than what anyone would have thought about me had I made an idiot out of myself. But it was out of my control… I’d just shut down, pull back as deep into my shell as possible, and ride out a storm that was only happening in my head. The worse thing about all this is that is a big reason my girlfriend left me. That coupled with the constant unhappiness. I hate to lose the greatest thing all because of something I haven’t tried to deal with until now.

    I am hypersensitive to how people perceive me. But only in certain situations… and only with people in the same social strata as I am. I’ve lived in this apartment for a year and a half now… and I don’t know any of my neighbors. If they are out and about, I avoid them. If I happen to cross paths, I offer a polite hello and continue on my way.

    Heck, another incident just Monday night. I was faced with a horrible decision. Is it ok to wear silver basketball shorts with a navy-blue tee to my game. My typical (and acceptable) black shorts were dirty. I had to run the idea past a friend online to see if it would be ok. I am 26 years old… and worried that people will think something negative about me if I wear silver shorts with a navy-blue tee to a rec league softball game. Worried to the point it almost consumes me. Now that I got approval and wore them with anyone saying anything… I will wear them with confidence from here on out.

    But anyway…

    Quote Originally Posted by Pexster
    Sounds as if your mother couldn't handle the alcohol abuse in your home, but saved herself without saving you. You might examine (if you haven't already) the extent of alcoholism in your family. Could be your dad is an isolated case. In which case, enjoying a beer or two and a game of pool wouldn't be life-threatening.

    One concrete idea I have is to check out Toastmasters. They may help with feeling more at ease out in public, and you'd gain public speaking skills to boot!

    My earnest best wishes to you. You are a brave guy.
    Pexter: Thanks for the kind words… as for the family history. I watched one grandfather die after cancer that blossomed in his liver and prostate. My other grandfather I never recall drunk… but he was always near a beer (had a tap in the bar in his basement). I typically do I pretty good job of public speaking as I have great confidence when it comes to what I have to say. It is a “controlled” environment.


    Quote Originally Posted by OuTpaTienT
    Bottom line Gomes, it's part of life to feel depressed, sad, etc. on an occasional basis. It's a clinical syndrome when that down feeling is constant. Sounds like you've have a pretty rough childhood so it would be normal and expected to also experience an abnormally high amount of those depressed times. But that doesn't necessarily mean you have been depressed the entire time. You mention that your gf was a source of joy in your life. The fact that you can identify and acknowledge a source of joy indicates you probably haven't been clinically depressed 24/7 over the recent years.

    Unfortunately, attempting to be diagnosed for depression right after (or during) a major breakup with a long time gf is probably about as helpful as putting a fresh, mirror-finish paintjob on your demolition derby car, right before the next heat. Well, maybe that's a stupid analogy, I'll have to work on a better one, but I think you know what I'm getting at. Of course you're depressed right now. You'd be a freak of nature if you weren't.

    And I don't see how you can effectively deal with any other depression you may have until you are able to get through this more powerful recent depression. You know what I mean? And I see no painless answer to this problem. I would have to say there are only two workable scenarios regarding your gf. 1.) That she rejoin you and you guys continue to work on the relationship in concert with you starting to work on any deep seeded depression you may have. 2.) You come to terms with the breakup as being finalized and you two go your separate ways, and then after an intense period of the heartbreak you can then go to work on any of those deep seeded issues. ANYTHING IN BETWEEN THOSE TWO SITUATIONS (like you guys continuing to "be friends" and you dangling along the whole time in hopes to rekindle the relationship) IS GOING TO BE NOTHING BUT TROUBLE. This is one of those times I hate being right.
    Out:
    I know I haven’t been clinically depressed for a long period of time (yesrs)… But the low-level, chronic depression for longer than 2 years rings true. I thought that it might be the case that I was just feeling that way because of the fact that I was fighting the severe depression... but I asked others if they saw it and they said they did. The breakup did lead to a bout of clinical depression though. One that I think I have pulled myself out of hopefully. I had slipped a couple times over the course of our 2.5 year relationship into major bouts. And I was already on a downhill slide before she broke up with me due to some things at home.

    Regarding the gf. At the moment there is no relationship to work through. She has felt better since she did this. She made her decision. She thought she was making me unhappy. Just wants me to be happy. She still has feelings for me though. When I pluck those strings when talking to her they still ring true. I’ve got three options. Fight for her love, wait for it, or kill the love for her that lives within me. As long as there is hope, I can’t bring myself to twist that knife. It is something I have to deal with on a daily basis one way or the other. It will either bleed itself out from the wound it has suffered or heal. I won't kill it.

    Thank you for the advice. It's not fallen on deaf ears.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnD1
    Gomer, are you a part of anything that is organized? Do you play Hockey? Do you take tae kwon do? Are you involved in religion/cult/Dungeons & Dragons?

    Like you, I have a lot of problems with social interactions, but I've found that being a part of something really helps.

    Try joining a church and start taking karate.
    ShawnD1: I play in a rec league coed softball team with my work and people from their church. That is about it. Funny you mentioned hockey. I am an avid fan of NCAA hockey. Played IM floor hockey while going to MSU. And I play floor hockey in the winter time when I am able to make the 150 mile trek home for a game. It is something I really enjoy. In fact, I have a stick, puck and ball floating around my lving room right now that I shoot around my apt.

    Unfortunately I have no such outlet here at the time. And I don’t really know how to go about it or if I could. Like I said, I have issues with people in the same social strata as me in situations where I have limited control. It is certainly going to be a step I have to take here in the near future. It is something I have to work on.

    As for church. Thanks but no thanks. And I mean that. And I hope I don’t have to repeatedly revisit in this thread.

    DanGrease: Thanks for the detailed input. The part you mentioned that I worry about is being able to get off of it. Right now I am financially secure, and have health insurance. But should something effect that, those meds are not cheap. How do you feel if you miss a pill, or two, or three? How do you feel about maybe having to do that for the next several years?

    AND TO EVERYONE ELSE who has replied… or may just be lurking. Thanks for your thoughts and comments =)


    Pardon me if I rambled... I just hammer these things out!! I might clean it up later.

  13. #33
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    I talked to my best friend about it finally (he’s a pharmacist, was off the grid) and he doesn’t see anything wrong with them.
    lol...I got a friend who sells Chevy's..he doesnt see anything wrong with Tahoe's

    uhh, do you really think a pharmicist (or doctor) is going to try to deter you from taking expensive pills?
    Their whole way of living depends on people buying pills
    ----

    question for pondering....how did people for the last how ever many thousands of years of human histroy get by without all these high power mood altering drugs that we think we MUST have to function normally? How did ANYONE get by without prozac etc?
    "Even a fool is thought to be wise if he is silent"

  14. #34
    Fact Checker Gomer's Avatar
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    JP: He is like a brother to me. Him and his family are probably the only reasons I found any success in life and fought my way out of what I did. I asked for his advice as both a friend and a pharm and I have no doubt he offered me his unbiased, educated, opinion. This is a guy who would fall on a sword for me, and provide me any help I ask of him. I know this because he has in the past.

    Let's not belabor this point either please.

  15. #35
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    you dont give any creedence to the fact that I was in a long term situation exactly as you describe...struggling and depressed for years....and I am out the other end now. 2 bad.

    I dont give marraige advice, I dont give financial advice....cuz I know zilch about those things..but I do know about this.

    Ahh, but I remember it so well, the denial...the ol' "well, if I just get involved in this or that"..and the ol'.."well I havent been depressed for 2 weeks..maybe it'll just go away."


    Well, good luck anyway. I offered advice, that's all a person can do.
    "Even a fool is thought to be wise if he is silent"

  16. #36
    Fact Checker Gomer's Avatar
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    Who's to say I haven't given you creedence. You're the only one. You've offered your advice. I have listened. I'm listening. DanGrease has offered advice too, meds worked great for him... lots of members have offered advice. Everyone is going to offer something different. Only I can sort the wheat from the chafe.

    I'll kindly ask that you please stop these games.

  17. #37
    Light to Counter the Dim MTAtech's Avatar
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    NYS Attorney General Eliot Spitzer has sued GlaxoSmithKline for fraudulently concealing scientific studies that showed Paxil was not effective in treatment of depression in children and adolescents. Paxil actually increased the risk of “emotional lability” and suicide.
    Conservatives: "If the facts disagree with our opinion, ignore the facts -- or at least misrepresent them."

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech
    NYS Attorney General Eliot Spitzer has sued GlaxoSmithKline for fraudulently concealing scientific studies that showed Paxil was not effective in treatment of depression in children and adolescents. Paxil actually increased the risk of “emotional lability” and suicide.
    Eli Lilly's Prozac has gone through the same accusations. People have sued the company and have alleged that it only made symptoms worse. I would recommend that you think about using any of these anti-depressant drugs with great care.

  19. #39
    Ultimate Member DanGrease's Avatar
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    Thanks for the detailed input. The part you mentioned that I worry about is being able to get off of it. Right now I am financially secure, and have health insurance. But should something effect that, those meds are not cheap. How do you feel if you miss a pill, or two, or three? How do you feel about maybe having to do that for the next several years?

    No problem. I would love to help you and be able to answer your questions about this subject as polite and correct as possible. For me its a joy to help others. I know the idea of being medicated might scare you, but let me tell you some things that might change your view of the whole "pill" idea.

    We are all different. Or bodies work different and our whole metabolism is different from person to person. I like lemon, but that doesn't mean another person does. I am not allergic to milk, while another person might be. Same here. These pills worked great for me, but might not for others. Most here that are against anti-depressive medication, have you actually tried them? If not, you might get your information from the internet, but its not even close to experience it by yourself. It not the same to be in a country personally for example than read the experience from another person that went to a country through a book.

    I tell you this, these pills have made wonders for me. I haven't had a depression moment for a year now. Of course these pills aren't miracle pills, but they worked great and still do for me. If they caused another teenager to consider suicide, well maybe it wasn't the correct medication for him. My doctor actually made me try these pills for one month to see if any major side effects were shown and if this medication really worked on me. Turned out they did. After about 3 weeks I couldn't feel sorry for myself. Well I could, but not to the point of crying because of it as I did before. And feeling sorry for yourself is one of the worst things you can do to yourself when you are in a depression. It only makes it worse, believe me. I know its great to cry. If you feel the need to, then do so. But I got to a point where I just cried and cried without a stop and I didn't feel relieved after, I just felt worse. Crying is great, but to a certain point.

    If I miss a pill or two (has happened ALOT of times to me) I don't feel anything. Why? Because these drugs take time to actually work in your body. In the start for example, you have to wait 3 weeks before you can see the effects of it. Which means that when missing a pill or two you wont feel anything, just maybe in the next few days. What I get if I miss one pill is usually nothing. When I miss two pills I might get headaches a few days after, but nothing serious. Never missed three pills, but its probably the same as two. What you have to do though when you missed a pill and realized hours after is to take it as soon as possible, even if there are just a few hours left for you to take the next pill. NEVER take two pills the next day together. Doesn't work that way. Heck, one day I realized I forgot to take the pill 6 AM, and I woke up 10 AM that day. I take the pills in the morning together with my breakfast. Didn't do any harm at all. Its normal to forget one or two pills, nothing to worry about in that area, at least for me.

    After a year it was time for me to stop taking the pills. The problem was that I didn't do it as I should have because I just didn't know. I started taking half of the pill right away, then I waited a day to take the other half, and so on. This is totally wrong. The process of quiting Paxil is WAY slower. Or else the withdrawal part is way to strong. I am going to take the pills one more year then start with the quitting process. Also, 1 year of medication is actually nothing. It has to be more in my opinion. But that just depends on each person.

    Great source when you have to stop taking Paxil: http://www.quitpaxil.info/
    You have alot of information there that will help you, I know it will to me.

    I hope this post helped you a bit, and I apologize for my English that sometimes can get a bit under average of proper. Anyways, I try my best.

    Again, I wish you the best my friend. Stay strong!
    dan
    Last edited by DanGrease; July 23rd, 2004 at 02:36 PM.

  20. #40
    Ultimate Member RayH's Avatar
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    Psychotropics is not a cut and dry issue. Some make people better, some make them worse. Some make them better for a while, then make people worse.

    The important thing is that you doctor know everything that you are taking: OTC, diet, etc. These things affect psychotropics. You need careful monitoring to see if dosage or medication should be changed.
    RayH42450@gmail.com
    Please indicate you are from TechIMO in subject line so you don't get deleted as spam :)

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